AIBU to step back if my elderly MIL refuses basic hygiene?

[zacsGranny]

My MIL is 92 and a very strong character. Over the years we have had several run ins. She can give it out, but can't take it.
After our last difference of opinion, she decided to go and live with her daughter, who is the most uncaring person and they have never got on.
The daughter fed her, but offered no other personal care or support.
MIL struggled as there was no downstairs toilet, so paid for a stairlift, but this was only partial, so had a commode. Daughter refused to empty or clean it, so MIL had to take the pot upstairs on her knee on the stairlift. It was emptied but not cleaned.
The smell just got worse. Shower was also upstairs, so not used very frequently.
MIL also believes she doesn't sweat, so doesn't use deodorant.

Eventually, MIL decided that she had made a mistake and wanted to move back here near us as daughter barely spoke to her and the house was filthy.
We looked for Supported Living, but there are long waiting lists, so we found her a private rental.
Had to buy everything for the kitchen, and some second hand furniture, so my husband and I have done all this. MIL paid a removal company to pack what she had and husband took a train to where his mother was and drove her here.

I was waiting at the new flat for the removal company.
They opened the van and everything was dirty and stinking.
She had a very expensive rug, which hadn't been vacuumed for months and was covered in hairs, dust, sticky tablets and toenail clippings.
I had to clean her commode which was brown
Her recliner chair, which she sits in and sleeps in was dark brown with urine stains.
She brought a bin full of used incontinence pads.
All her clothes stink.
She stinks'
Her bedding stinks.
Her cups and kettle were mouldy.
She had no toiletries because she doesn't wash.
I do have photos but they may be too graphic to include.

The hard part is that she thinks that it's OK.
She puts a cover over the chair so she can't see it.
We can mask the smell but that doesn't solve the problem.
I have suggested nice toiletries as she now has a gorgeous walk in ensuite shower, but she won't listen.
She just thinks I'm being fussy and was really nasty when I tried to explain about hygiene.
I have told my husband that he needs to speak to her or I'm not going to get involved.
AIBU?

Yes he was as supportive as he could be from a distance and came home when the situation worsened.
When his Dad sacked all his Carers, due to the dementia, insisting he didn't need them, he stood up to him and said that if he wouldn't accept the Carers he was on his own.
For some reason he's not prepared to do that with his Mother. I have just suggested putting together a bag of toiletries, including deodorant. He said that she doesn't use it. My reply was that he should tell her that she needs to start.
He said that he couldn't do that!
So what is the difference?
He can stand up to his Father, but not his Mother?
In both cases for their own good?

I also reminded my husband that a very old friend of his, from schooldays, contracted cancer last year. She got the all clear in February.
Last week she caught an infection, was taken into hospital and died the next day.
MIL also knew Susan so I have asked him to remind her.

I’m sure she would make a fuss but then get over it. I’d tell your DH he needs to do it for her health and just get it done. I’d also refuse to go round to do anything unless stuff like that is sorted.

Step back. You have gone above and beyond, and it's time for you to prioritise your own health and that of your son.

I might have one last blunt-to-the-extreme attempt (Ethel you stink, you need to wash and stop pissing on the chair) but only because I'd be happy never to see her again. Probably I wouldn't do that, I'd just - step back and never visit her stinky flat, ever.

…..he stood up to him and said that if he wouldn't accept the Carers he was on his own.

Did that work? Or was it a horrible time and he doesn’t want a repetition of that?

You can do that to his mum though. Social services/GP will take over if the family have no input. They won’t just look at her sitting in urine and say ‘oh well, never mind, she doesn’t want us to do anything’. They will be looking at skin, mobility, carers, cleaner and so on.

Yes, it did work and all was well at home as long as he was there.
I think the difference was that his Father was a nice man.
His Mother is not a nice woman.

I found it almost impossible to get my formerly very fastidious DM (dementia) to have a shower and wash her hair, or to change out of grubby clothes. She’d almost invariably say she couldn’t be bothered, and would get tearful and/or angry if I pushed it, and I just couldn’t face the hassle.

However my sister, who lived much further away and so visited a lot less often, was able to be a lot tougher with her: ‘You NEED a shower - you smell!’
(She did - her hair had that horrible unwashed smell, too.).

She would cry and act like the victim of extreme cruelty, but it was soon forgotten and I’m sure she must have felt better afterwards.
Luckily she had a brilliant cleaning lady, so the house was fine.

My FiL (also dementia) lived with us for several months, I could never get him to bath or shower either, though he’d occasionally do it for dh, but dh was often away for a couple of weeks at a time. I didn’t dare push it with him, since he was apt to fly into truly terrifying rages - I had to tiptoe around him on eggshells.

I did manage to get him to wear clean clothes, though - but only by waiting until he went to the bathroom first thing, zooming in with a clean set, and taking away the others. He never noticed!

Dementia is an absolute buggering bastard!!!

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER I totally agree with you. Cleanliness seems to be one of the first signs of dementia. I saw it with my Mother and with FIL.
MIL gets a little confused and forgetful but no other dementia symptoms as such. She is just a very stubborn, sometimes obnoxious old lady that seems to get away with murder because nobody wants to get on the wrong side of her.
She can be really nasty at times. As I said in my OP, she can certainly give it out, but she can't, and won't, take it.

I often used to wonder how the care home managed it! Once she was there, Dm was always in clean clothes, with nice clean hair. All the residents were much the same. It’s possible that the carers’ uniforms made them look more like nurses, which I’m sure would have made my DM more compliant.

Quick update.
Went to see MIL and explained about my son and the risk of infection (after she took a pad and bandage off her infected leg and went to put them back in the first aid kit to reuse)
She did listen.
Later we took her to choose a new chair and she chose a good one and agreed to pat for Guardsman protection, washable arm and headrest covers and washable waterproof seat pads. She also agreed to let them take the old one away.
Fingers crossed things are changing.

Been there. When my mum was still living at home by herself we had carers coming in 2/3 times a day plus me and my sister went up every day - carers always complained because my mum refused personal care and to tell the truth really stunk!!! I was mainly cleaning when I went up and one time she clogged her toilet when one of her adult nappy s fell off down the loo!!! Had to wait in for plumber. Plus she didn't really clean her dishes properly so they ended up with old food stains etc on them. Just do what you can when you see her.

Op have you set up an incontinence pad collection service? The local health authority can do this, and they will also supply pads if you are lucky.

We are in the process of registering her with a GP at the local Health Centre. Hopefully, we can do this.

You are doing an incredible job and have the patience of a saint. Now she is in your house, she needs to understand that she should adhere to your (very reasonable) rules. Ie: daily washing. I would bin (burn) any old furniture, clothes etc that are unhygienic too. You should definitely get drop in care too, so that everything isn't falling on your shoulders.

You’ve gone above and beyond - leave it to H and SIL - concentrate on your son.

But that's up to her - I know you are being caring but it can get a bit all consuming. it's probably time to step back and let the cards fall as they may and wait for the crisis to happen. So no you are not being unreasonable. leave it with your husband and get him to refer to adult social care.

Sorry, she isn't in my house, she's in a flat we have found, furnished and set up for her. Previously she lived a long way away with a very uncaring daughter who did nothing. Hence everything arrived dirty and smelly, including her.
We are gradually cleaning things and trying to keep them that way.

Given that she's now in a flat, she may be less incontinent because she'll be better able to get to a toilet. Worth thinking about grab bars around the toilet and position of the toilet paper and space for her to bring her walker into the bathroom.

Washing becomes less of a problem if she's managing to get to a toilet nearly all of the time. She's from a generation where baths were weekly. So don't force showering over baths / strip washes - but do show her how to operate the shower controls - she may not be able to see well or may muddle the temperature control and on/off knob. Also check with her and show her that the bathroom floor isn't slippery when the shower has been used. She may be terrified of falling.

She may be wanting to sleep in a chair because she doesn't feel confident she can get in and out of a normal bed unaided or because it lets her sleep a bit more upright and that helps her breathe more comfortably. Bars she can grab to help her get in and out of bed may help. Things like easy move sheets may help her turn herself in bed. But she may be at a point where thing that would really help is a hospital style profiling bed.

Once she has a GP they should be able to refer to Occupational Therapy / a frailty team / balance classes / District nurses / continence services.

When you register her with the GP, let them know what is going on and they can let her know the health issues she is creating

Can you get your DH to take her away for a couple of days 'holiday', having bought replacement items and then just blitz her flat? I know this is expensive, hard work and she'll go ballistic but if you start with a clean slate you're in a better position than before. Btw, I think it's lovely you're prepared to help your husband but do make sure he does his fair share. You will need Soc Services involved and a care plan as well. Sometimes an external viewpoint is accepted better than family by the person needing help. You have nothing to lose by trying.

It's ok to vent here, OP. I think in these situations we end up doing more because we are scared of what it reveals- that your DH is not able to care enough to sort it.

He may have his valid reasons to leave her struggling, and she certainly sounds like she wasn't the best mum to him?

I would honestly try and drop the obligations and guilt, contact adult social services, and then drop the rope. Her children can take the lead (or not, whatever they choose).

I'm sorry to hear about your son and I hope you can be there for him more by letting go of this stressful situation.

Very good advice!

Thanks everyone.
I wouldn't like to see a dog living in the conditions she was in - and that was down to SIL. I have no time for her. My OH didn't know quite how bad it was, and MIL was a bit 'institutionalised' by the conditions. I think she has little or no sense of smell and her eyes aren't brilliant, so she wasn't aware of how bad it was.
I have got it basically clean, apart from some of the bedding she has brought.
Think I need to take duvets to the cleaners and ditch the pillows.
OH has talked to her today and backed me up. He has got rid of lots of old horrible stuff, and is prepared to do his bit.
Tonight he plans to have a very interesting phone call with his sister, about the whole situation. It really is a case of neglect and we are disgusted.
Once we have her registered with a Dr and in the system, I will step back, but my conscience wouldn't let me walk away from this situation, even though I don't actually like my MIL.

It seems you've done what you can. Let your husband deal with her. Concentrate on looking after your son.

OP you’re doing an amazing job and your persistence seems to be paying off a bit, especially if you have managed to persuade her to get rid of the chair!

When my DH’s Grandma was in denial about her incontinence I told my MIL (her daughter) about those washable mats you can get to put on a chair to absorb the wee. She got several - some for her own home when her mum visited - she insisted she sat in a certain chair 😂 and some for Grandma’s wardened flat. She popped round most days and would always swap the chair pads for a clean ones and wash the used ones. They were being washed so frequently there was no smell. It might be worth investing in several and popping them on every upholstered chair 😬.

All the best to you and your son OP.