AIBU to step back if my elderly MIL refuses basic hygiene?

[zacsGranny]

My MIL is 92 and a very strong character. Over the years we have had several run ins. She can give it out, but can't take it.
After our last difference of opinion, she decided to go and live with her daughter, who is the most uncaring person and they have never got on.
The daughter fed her, but offered no other personal care or support.
MIL struggled as there was no downstairs toilet, so paid for a stairlift, but this was only partial, so had a commode. Daughter refused to empty or clean it, so MIL had to take the pot upstairs on her knee on the stairlift. It was emptied but not cleaned.
The smell just got worse. Shower was also upstairs, so not used very frequently.
MIL also believes she doesn't sweat, so doesn't use deodorant.

Eventually, MIL decided that she had made a mistake and wanted to move back here near us as daughter barely spoke to her and the house was filthy.
We looked for Supported Living, but there are long waiting lists, so we found her a private rental.
Had to buy everything for the kitchen, and some second hand furniture, so my husband and I have done all this. MIL paid a removal company to pack what she had and husband took a train to where his mother was and drove her here.

I was waiting at the new flat for the removal company.
They opened the van and everything was dirty and stinking.
She had a very expensive rug, which hadn't been vacuumed for months and was covered in hairs, dust, sticky tablets and toenail clippings.
I had to clean her commode which was brown
Her recliner chair, which she sits in and sleeps in was dark brown with urine stains.
She brought a bin full of used incontinence pads.
All her clothes stink.
She stinks'
Her bedding stinks.
Her cups and kettle were mouldy.
She had no toiletries because she doesn't wash.
I do have photos but they may be too graphic to include.

The hard part is that she thinks that it's OK.
She puts a cover over the chair so she can't see it.
We can mask the smell but that doesn't solve the problem.
I have suggested nice toiletries as she now has a gorgeous walk in ensuite shower, but she won't listen.
She just thinks I'm being fussy and was really nasty when I tried to explain about hygiene.
I have told my husband that he needs to speak to her or I'm not going to get involved.
AIBU?

In answer to your question, no YANBU to step back at this stage. But will you?

'Strong character' or starting to develop dementia?

It can be hard to tell if someone has always been a strong character.

But if she wasn't smelly 10 years ago, then it's likely this is cognitive decline.

Having a lack of insight into your own medical and general wellbeing is not necessarily a symptom of dementia. It can be a lack of confidence in mobility, depression and a mix of reasons. But it is important to get it sorted. Not doing so causes a risk of infections for them.
Age UK will have some good advice, as will many elderly websites. If she can be showered by carers twice a week that will help.
Her not wanting for it to be done start slowly with persuading her to have a sink wash with the carers. She has to have carers in order to be fed.
Explain she will get infections if she doesn’t take care or allow others to help.
But hiring carers seems essential now.
I am afraid if she cannot care for herself then a home will need to be considered.

Please approach this situation with some compassion. I understand how difficult it must be for you, but she appears quite frail and vulnerable.

As we age, our capacity and decision-making abilities can decline significantly and there is often a constant fear of losing independence. What may appear to you as defiance is likely something very different. She is probably frightened of death, worried about losing her independence, afraid of becoming a burden to others, and feeling embarrassed, anxious and overwhelmed.

A little patience, empathy and reassurance may go a long way in helping her feel safe and understood.

The issue is that if she doesn't want to have a wash the carers can't force her to - they can only cajole and try to persuade. I see my own mother gradually going that way ,although nowhere near as bad - she has a carer coming in each morning to wash and dress her and give her her medication, but when I've been there she often insists that she doesn't need a wash as 'I'm not dirty', or 'I've not been anywhere'. She tries to get up and dress herself before the carer arrives, and has even asked them to start arriving later in the morning so that she can do this.

The carer has a number of methods of persuasion - offering to do just the top half one day and the bottom the next, for example , but mum has capacity so there's little she can do if mum says no. ...

You have summed this up exactly.
She is not short of money and has agreed to buy a new chair.
The flat started out out clean and fresh and we want to keep it that way..
I have looked after both my Mother and FIL who had dementia, so I know the signs and have dealt with them, but MIL is a different kettle of fish because she is so strong. She simply will not accept that she needs care.
She will argue black is white and speaks to me in a very nasty manner when I try and address issues..
My son is an adult and wants to try and help her, so the hygiene is a huge issue.
My husband agrees with everything that has been said but prefers the softer approach. I think the whole situation is more urgent and must be addressed.

We will be starting a cleaning company next week and will explain things to them. Ditto the Doctor and District Nurse if they become involved because of her legs.
I have been unwell myself for six months now, and dealing with MIL takes a lot of energy and is very draining. Anyone who knows her would agree.
I really have done my best for her. Spent so many hours setting up this flat, then six hours straight trying to clean items she brought, including the smelly chair.

Thanks for all the helpful, considered responses.

Just for those who think I’m being cruel. Hard to get decent pictures but this is a taste of what she brought

Try again

@crackerjackbabywhy would you went to see the pics?…weird

Sorry I have added pics although not the worst one of the chair. Should I delete?

I would register with a doctor , if possible make an appointment with the doctor and go yourself ,in confidence - take a letter explaining the situation in clear factual details .
As she is over 90 they may do a house call , it still happens in some practices , my younger than your mil had a visit recently - or she may go and see the doctor.
The doctor/nurse will see for themselves what you describe and mil may give in to their guidance and suggestions for ss involvement.
If this doesn't work then at her vulnerable age at some point there will be some kind of health / accident crisis and the situation will likely be taken out of your and her hands.
It sounds like an awful situation ,what a silly woman she is ,cutting her nose off to spite her face.
But what matters most out of everything you said is your son and in your shoes he would be getting all my attention and care , you mil is too difficult and old to change now so i'm inclined to say if she refuses help let her get on with it.
Sending my thoughts to you and your son.

Just to add i absolutely do not think you are being cruel.
Anyone who has never had to deal with a stupid stubborn nasty old bugger in this kind of situation really should keep quiet.

I want to see the chair

Sorry some of the images are too big.

”A little patience, empathy and compassion…..etc”

Goes both ways.

The OP has done more than enough and her priority is to her DS - both in time, energy and emotional headspace. She can’t be in two places at once so she needs to decide where to put her finite resources - and that would be for herself and her DS.

Anyone can make a safeguarding referral so she could do this and step back.

I had this with my alcoholic IL - they lived in absolute squalor with 10 stray cats shitting and pissing throughout the house - bowls of cat food covered in flies everywhere.

I chose not to take my premature baby to visit and got roasted for that. No regrets. Never saw them again the FIL died suddenly from a ruptured liver artery and the MIL ended up in a dementia unit. They always hated me so I stepped back. Left my DH and his equally useless DSis to manage. No regrets.

They always disliked me so expect they were relieved that busy body DIL had faded away.

Social services assessments and get power of attorney and care home self neglect it's called

Just take it to the tip. She has a new chair.

If it was up to me, that would happen, but it will have to be wrestled out from under her. She would never speak to us again, which may not be a bad thing!

I would step back.

its your HUSBAND who should be contacting her GP and social service to arrange carers and whatever else may be required.

she is not your mother. I would have no issue doing this for someone I had a good relationship with but not in place of her actual children.

She must stand up at some point in the day. I genuinely would just wait until she stood up and then lift the chair up and take it out of the house. She’s in cognitive decline and if you can’t reason with her, just remove the chair. It’s what would happen in a care home. If she doesn’t want to talk to you afterwards, then she doesn’t want to talk to you. Removing the chair by force is the kind thing to do. I know you say DH doesn’t like talking but removing the chair doesn’t involve a conversation

I have looked after…..FIL who had dementia

FFS so they left their dad for you to deal with too?

Is there anything your husband and his sister can do?

She can sit on puppy pads, they will help keep the new chair clean. Sometimes they’re called Conti sheets.

Your husband can buy those and sort them. Unless that’s too difficult for him, poor little poppet.

SIL is useless and lives on an island, which is where MIL has been living with her the last couple of years. She really is a waste of space.

To be fair, my husband was working abroad when we realised how bad FIL was. He had lung cancer, so had carers, who I oversaw, but the dementia and cancer got worse and he ended up in hospital and never went home. I had to find a Care Home with Nursing for him. Husband came home and we looked after him for the six and a half weeks he lasted in the care home.
Dealing with his Mother is harder for him I think, but he will give her the hard word. Wants to try reasoning with her first though, even though I have said it won't work.

If she is not capable of taking care of herself, I would involve Adult Social Care whether she goes ballistic or not. Ultimately it's going to be down to your husband as her next of kin. If you need to step back to safeguard your son's health, your husband will have to step up. If your MIL cannot see how living in such unhygienic conditions is detrimental to her health, she will likely end up with an infection and hospitalised. You can then make the case that she is unsafe to return home and needs a care home.

Agree with this ⬆️.

Your son and his need for an infection free environment is your priority.

As long as someone (doesn’t matter who) has made it clear to the GP what’s going on then you can safely step back.

@zacsGranny while your husband was abroad and you were overseeing the care of his father, was he supporting you in any way?