AIBU to step back if my elderly MIL refuses basic hygiene?

[zacsGranny]

My MIL is 92 and a very strong character. Over the years we have had several run ins. She can give it out, but can't take it.
After our last difference of opinion, she decided to go and live with her daughter, who is the most uncaring person and they have never got on.
The daughter fed her, but offered no other personal care or support.
MIL struggled as there was no downstairs toilet, so paid for a stairlift, but this was only partial, so had a commode. Daughter refused to empty or clean it, so MIL had to take the pot upstairs on her knee on the stairlift. It was emptied but not cleaned.
The smell just got worse. Shower was also upstairs, so not used very frequently.
MIL also believes she doesn't sweat, so doesn't use deodorant.

Eventually, MIL decided that she had made a mistake and wanted to move back here near us as daughter barely spoke to her and the house was filthy.
We looked for Supported Living, but there are long waiting lists, so we found her a private rental.
Had to buy everything for the kitchen, and some second hand furniture, so my husband and I have done all this. MIL paid a removal company to pack what she had and husband took a train to where his mother was and drove her here.

I was waiting at the new flat for the removal company.
They opened the van and everything was dirty and stinking.
She had a very expensive rug, which hadn't been vacuumed for months and was covered in hairs, dust, sticky tablets and toenail clippings.
I had to clean her commode which was brown
Her recliner chair, which she sits in and sleeps in was dark brown with urine stains.
She brought a bin full of used incontinence pads.
All her clothes stink.
She stinks'
Her bedding stinks.
Her cups and kettle were mouldy.
She had no toiletries because she doesn't wash.
I do have photos but they may be too graphic to include.

The hard part is that she thinks that it's OK.
She puts a cover over the chair so she can't see it.
We can mask the smell but that doesn't solve the problem.
I have suggested nice toiletries as she now has a gorgeous walk in ensuite shower, but she won't listen.
She just thinks I'm being fussy and was really nasty when I tried to explain about hygiene.
I have told my husband that he needs to speak to her or I'm not going to get involved.
AIBU?

zacsGranny
She has agreed to having a cleaner, but won't accept that a cleaner can't do their job if she covers everything in dirty (smelly) clutter
She has agreed to buy a new chair but won't get rid of the old smelly one

Op on mn there’s a lot about cleaners who will only clean but not tidy but in real life you look for someone who can do both. A lot of people have reasons they can’t tidy a lot and I heard a segment on the radio debunking that cleaners won’t do anything to help people including decluttering. You’re doing amazing but your dh and his sister need to start stepping in more, you’ve enough on your plate x

Can you get a cleaner to do a deep clean? Get her out of her home while they do it, get an upholstery cleaning company to deep clean her chair. Would she have a shower at yours? Offer to help her in & out if she needs it. Alternatively buy some of those large body wipes they use in hospital, you can warm them in the microwave, offer to take her to the hairdressers for a wash & set. Do her clothes ever get washed? Could you gradually go through her wardrobe & wash all her clothes. Is she eating properly? Who cooks her meals?

Your priority has to be your son. If that means avoiding her very dirty environment then that's what has to happen. She can absolutely call the shots in terms of how she lives, but not consequence free. In this case one consequence may be your involvement. I'd tell her that unfortunately DS's diagnosis means you both need an extra clean house and hygiene routine. It'll require x,y and z and you are happy to organise it, but it's a non-negotiable in terms of DS's safety. Angle it that way so it's about his needs and not shaming her. Then the ball is in her court.

Tell your husband to go collect the chair and take it to the tip along with anything else like that. It’s not like she’s going to go there and get it back. Put some toiletries in the shower room. You know you tried then.

You can raise a safeguarding concern with Adult Social care in the sense she is not taking care of herself. My mum didnt want help and refused for a long time so I understand.

Has your MIL got Power of Attorney in place? As this is essential as she gets older and needs more support.

I assume she is in cognitive decline so not totally aware of her personal hygiene.

When DM started to show cognitive issues we got someone in who DM thinks is a cleaner but actually provides some care support too. It helps kick start the process of building up care support and them getting used to someone not related to them coming into the home and doing things for them

This is 100% a DH issue. He needs to insist the soiled furniture etc is thrown out and arrange for carers etc to come in daily for personal care. The flat needs professionally cleaned, all items destroyed or cleaned etc.

her children have let her down alllowing her to live like this in the previous property. I don’t understand why DH didn’t step in ahead of the move and ensure nothing dirty was transferred.

the MIL is living without dignity, so her feelings on it need to be ignored as its dangerous for her health.

Perhaps show DH this thread?

Op your DH needs to sit her down and be honest “mum Luke is going through cancer treatment an infection could kill him, we won’t be able to visit until you start taking care of yourself. You need a new chair it’s ruined we can smell urine mum, either accept the help of us or off carers and a cleaner or accept we cannot visit until Luke gets the all clear.” as for you, not your circus not your monkeys this is DH problem. Hope your sons cancer treatment goes well.

This
Remember the elderly can be very fruggle so why not buy a few basic products & pop them in the bathroom.
Dont be arguing with someone 90.
Who evers problem it is get some help with her able to make decisions with that help.

if you go down this route I would buy her a new chair and just take the old one to the tip, don’t let her talk you out of it. “No mum it needs to go it’s ruined.” As for the sister you should of called adult social services when she lived there, this is really bad neglect. Your MIL is likely embarrassed and has given up on the hygiene front from years of neglect and no help off the daughter.

Not your problem. Step back and let DH deal with his mother.

Start with GP and ask for occupational health to visit. Having just moved this is normal at her age.
Then step away.

You are just referring a vulnerable adult for safeguarding and either social services determines she is a vulnerable adult who needs safeguarding or she isn’t but you can still refer. If she is determined to lack capacity due to her vulnerability they will still have to step in but that threshold is very high.

You have my sympathy and you could step back. Age uk online shop has an array of useful things. No. 1 in my book is the commode liner. Plus no rinse shower caps, shampoo and body wash. if course she actually have to use them but might be less traumatic and agreeable than showering.

I work in care at the moment, OP and I completely recognise this situation, so youre not alone! For many of our clients , it is the harsh words from family/drs/social care, that they will not be allowed to live independently if they do not meet certain standards that kick starts their acceptance of carers or support. A list of non negotiables such as washing, changing pads, changing bedding etc. Don't get me wrong, those same clients can refuse to eat, refuse to wash, refuse to have pads changed but generally over the course of the visit, can be persuaded to do something. Sometimes it takes time for them to get into a routine with a specific carer too (I know when I do emergency cover, some clients refuse anything from me but are absolutely fine with the normal carer) but once they know wednesday morning is shower day, they generally accept it. Unfortunately the only way I have managed to get one lady's house smelling cleaner is insisting on her bedding (also on a chair) being removed and washed daily, even if it's not soiled, as the chair is too far gone. It has made a huge difference.

As a slightly different point to the smell, be aware that as it's a private rental then there will likely be an issue when the first inspection takes place.
Is the chair sitting on a carpeted floor and so urine slowly seeping into that? I honestly think I'd have DH removed it to the tip as you said she's bought another.

I agree with this. I feel that (and I truly don’t mean this in a patronising way) your spirited MIL is no different from a spirited child.

You can love them by doing something that is needed to nurture and protect them even if is doing something they don’t want to.

i genuinely feel sorry that her daughter and son can’t step up and do what is needed to properly look after her at this stage. No different from leaving a toddler in a used nappy even if they scream or run away from you when it’s time to change it.

Sending you love OP. You clearly have enough on your plate with your son and they should be picking this up.

Btw you sound amazing. Well done for stepping up. If you can persuade her to get carers in, I bet your name becomes the go to phrase to get anything done. "Well, Ive been told by X that you have to have a wash today, so if you won't, that's fine but I'll have to give her a call and tell her I can't do my job today". A united front can work wonderfully. It's a very difficult situation for you so you have my sympathies.

This is a very common problem
and tbh you can talk to her till your bluer in the face it won’t change

take the reins and manage it rather than trying to change it
sounds like the chair is the main problem get your husband to throw it out

Could we see the pics you mentioned?

She almost certainly has cognitive decline. It can be hard to tell when someone has always had a 'strong' personality anyway. But these sort of extreme unacceptable hygiene issues are usually indicative of dementia.

Definitely get her registered with a GP.

It is worth trying to get Social Services to access her. But unless she is diagnosed as having lost capacity they will not be able to do anything without her agreement (she may refuse to let them in the house). And if she has funds to pay for care she/relatives would be expected to access that care. But at least you would have tried.

Does her son have POA? I am guessing not, given her 'strong character'. In which case, there is no one authorised to make decisions if she is deemed to have lost capacity, so you are in a difficult position.

In that situation he shouldn’t visit her

You are in a very difficult position with somebody like this. It's frustrating when people jump on you for trying to do your best. Has she always been tricky to be around? It would explain why DH and SIL struggle to talk to her. Difficult people don't suddenly become sweet when they need help, and by then the family dynamic is set.
The mental capacity act is meant to give people more autonomy but in reality it means that someone has to be proven to have lost capacity before you can insist on anything. Just because you deem something is important ( like cleanliness) doesn't mean they have to agree, even if keeping someone clean and safe is very obviously important. It makes life difficult for carers because if a patient eg gets bed sores, there's hell to pay. But professional carers have to get consent before washing someone. They can't win.
Getting a new chair would be ideal but those riser recliners are really expensive and chances are she'll wee on that one too.
Good carers have experience in jollying folk along and talking them into having a wash or change of clothes but the training says you ask them and if they say no that's the end of it. Old school carers are the best for that, but they are getting older as the mental capacity act came in nearly 20 years ago.

A good start would be getting a cleaner with a stong stomach in. Who would be paying? This is another thing your 'ffs' posters think is easy- but if she refuses to pay, then who will? We can't all afford new stuff and pay a cleaner.

Sorry about your son 💐 and the difficulties with your mil that you really don't need right now.

Totally this. Not your circus. Step back, far back, and let them crack on. Not a chance I’d be going anywhere near her or her flat frankly, you have your own and your son’s health to consider. I’m sorry about your son and hope he gets better soon.

Oh God I’m so sorry to hear that. You need to focus on protecting your son and get social services to take responsibility for MIL. That puts a whole other consideration and context to your decisions. She is allowed to be as rigid and cantankerous as she wants to be, it is her own life but her unwillingness to take responsibility towards her changing circumstances does not override your son’s needs.