Parents (80 this year) have no wills or LPA in place

[Missingducks]

My parents are 80 this year - relatively fit and active and comfortably off. Today they told me they don't have wills or LPA organised. Do they think they are immortal or that when they die / need help someone else will sort it by magic? I am hopping mad. And told them they are ridiculous to hide their heads in the sand and that we have had ours since age 40 and review every 8 or so years . Growl.

I think elderly people are reluctant to do anything very much because:

Dont want to think about dying and think ill health is for others to suffer from
Dont want anyone knowing how much money they really have
Dont want anyone picking over how they organise things i.e paying a huge unnecessary amount on house insurance
Too much effort and after all when they go others will sort out the mess they have left

Some of these reasons are of course understandable. BUT - its a horribly selfish thing to do whilst calling often their daughter for all sorts of things day and night.. 'Its not urgent but' That and saying you are always so busy!

In your situation I'd encourage them to sort this out, but would focus on making things easier for them whilst they are alive but unwell, or for the widowed spouse rather than making it easier for you/ensuring things are given as they wish when they have both passed.

I'd point out that if one of them should lose capacity and they don't have LPA sorted it will be very costly and time consuming for the other to have access to their assets/make decisions for them- which adds expense and frustration at an already difficult time. This happened to MIL when FIL lost capacity almost over night.
Also, if they don't have LPA and are very unwell no one can deal with things on their behalf without having to get them to give permission there and then, which is stressful when they are already feeling terrible. (voice of experience trying to cancel a holiday/arrange bill payments etc when DF was unwell).
If they have a will naming an executor and naming spouse as beneficiary when the first one passes dealing with banks etc is relatively simple. with no will there's another layer of admin/stress/delay even if the final result is the same.

Yes, and it causes huge problems if something happens. Even the spouse is unable to make any financial or welfare decisions without POA. They would only be able to access joint accounts. The process to obtain this when someone has no capacity is long, arduous and expensive. So, yes it is their choice but if they dont have it then there should be no expectation for family to sort out the inevitable shit show.

Dying, no not particularly complicated if few relatives. Becoming incapacitated with no cognitive ability is a hugely complicated, expensive and distressing for everyone.

I would look for some horror stories (probably find some on here) about what happens if someone doesn’t have POA and has dementia or suddenly becomes incapacitated.

I nearly had such a horror story, parents refused to have POA (though did have wills). DF had previously sorted POA for his mum so knew why needed. DF’s health deteriorated, cancer and start of dementia, then sudden decline. Went into hospital, talked about care/nursing home. Parents had separate bank accounts, DF had private pension, DM only state one. We couldn’t access DF’s funds, sort out finances. Bills all paid out of DF’s bank account. An already stressful time became even more stressful. Sadly DF died in hospital. Not sure how we would have sorted finances if he hadn’t died there. DM agreed to sorting a POA for her straight after he died

A family relative died intestate. Estate was split between his widow and adult DC, so didn’t all go straight to his widow (eldest DC then scammed his mum to get hold of her share too but that is another story 😡) Relative was an undertaker. Of all the people., dealing with death everyday, you assume would have a will!

Yes on the wills. My mum and husband’s dad don’t have one but we are both only children and they are modest estates so it’s going to take longer to sort I suppose but nothing we can’t cope with.

Thanks all, I knew I wasn't wrong to be cross but it's good to have it confirmed. And yes probably the will is a nice-to-have. But LPA is so so important and I will nag now until this is done. I mean for goodness sake they spend time choosing holidays, electronics etc and haven't spent any time on preparing to reduce stress for stressful times.

Sadly yes - a millionaire’s death is very rare

I feel your pain OP. My 89 year old mum is the same. I have tried to explain to her and she simply brushes me away. I'm at the start of trying to get her into sheltered housing through her Local Authority and I might tell her that it'll be a requirement of her new tenancy......

I’d ask them if they’d be happy for social services or the Court of Protection to take over welfare/finance decisions, if they lose capacity.

The mere mention of social services poking their noses in was almost enough to give my mother* an apoplexy!

*gone some years ago now, but to her, social workers were only ever needed by the poor and feckless!

It’s a bloody selfish thing to do. Who will they call when they get into difficulties and it all becomes too much for them?

Ask them who they will contact when they get into difficulties or need help?

Get LPA now op.

I am having to go through the deputyship process at the moment. It’s going to cost a LOT of money. Thousands.

No will either but that’ll be less of an issue. There’s only me. Yes I know inheritance tax etc etc but her entire estate it going to be swallowed by care home fees. It is what it is!

So very selfish. I try to think kind thoughts about cognitive decline but it's absolute hell when people won't get their affairs in order.

Well said!

I've been executor for various family members of my own and DH, and we've also suffered with parents with long term health issues, dementia, etc., and it's an absolute nightmare when they've not made any preparations at all, not just no wills or POAs, but not even paying household bills out of a joint account, which is really the bare minimum for making things easier.

I've also been involved when clients have died and I've had to sort out the mess of paperwork to try to put things together and work out what's happened with finances and get an angle on what they've got upon death. It's often an absolute nightmare.

Because of that DH and myself have streamlined everything, got joint accounts in place with direct debits set up for as much as possible, disposed of old obscure investments, streamlined savings and investments, etc., plus all POAs and wills, and even organised all our personal and household financial paperwork.

Even drafted our inheritance tax returns, with current values for bank accounts, savings, investments, house, cars, chattels, etc., and including lists of declarable "gifts" during the last 7 years, so all it needs is updating every couple of years (quick and easy job for us), and our DS will be good to go and not have to spend hours/days trawling through the house trying to track and find finances, assets, gifts, etc.

I agree.

My DF passed without a will. I was lucky my job gave me a month off because post the funeral it took me about three weeks of engaging with HMRC, the pension people, various banks and the paperwork to get to a point I could actually access his assets. You need probate to access his assets but you need to know what they have in assets to apply for probate. The banks would not talk to me without it but I could not apply for it without knowing how much was in the bank. I had to make guesses.

Legally half goes to the spouse and the remainder amongst the children if there is no will in place. It is an utterly selfish thing to do to your children in this day and age.

I’m in a similar position, DM 86, has a will but no LPA as she doesn’t want anyone taking control of her life. But very recently after 8 days in hospital and a care plan which involved carers popping in 3 times per day, she has decided let us sort LPAs now. Better late than
never but I’m not holding my breath.

Please get it done asap (like tomorrow!). LPA’s take weeks/months to come through.