Am I right that most elderly people must self-fund care if they have assets?

[Coffeeisnotmycupoftea]

People telling me time and again that my mum could get care home fees paid for by the government and I am certain they are wrong.

Mum is in the advancing stages of Alzheimer's having suffered now for 8 years. Between my father, my sister and I we have been caring for her ourselves. We now have a team of carers coming in 3 times a day as we are trying are best to keep her at home, for as long as possible.

We really don't want to put mum into a home if we can help it even though it is becoming a struggle (more for dad as he feels he has no life). This is not because of the fear of losing money as it's costing over £1k per week for the home carers as it is. It's more that we can keep an eye on her care at home and have yet to find a home we like the look of (have been viewing quite a few of late) but the truth is that mum will more than likely need to go into a care home within the next 6 months to a year as her care needs progress.

My parents have assets. I have looked into everything for them and have had SS round to do assessments etc and each and every time we are told care would need to be paid for in full by my parents (with AA and pensions included) because they have well over the £23,250 threshold. My parents FA has also given this information to us. We are fine with this and fully aware if you have any assets you need to pay for your care.

However, so many people we know tell us that mum should and would qualify for 'free' care. They seem to believe that continuing healthcare is really easy to get and I keep hearing their stories that their mum or dad are getting getting care home fees paid for free despite them owning property or having lots of savings etc. My sister is now pushing for us to find out more because someone she works for is telling her we absolutely must not pay for care home fees as we can get it paid for (??).

I am fed up telling them that isn't the case for a large percentage of people and most will have to fund their own care fees whether that is at home care or in a care facility.

I am right, aren't I? That most people with substantial savings and/or a home of their own will need to fund their own care? (I understand a house can not be sold whilst a spouse is living there but if they die the house will need to be sold to pay for the fees?)

My grandparents paid into an insurance for years ,it was a fortune under the mistaken belief they could be cared for in their home. When the time came the criteria was so strict ( basically,if you could hold a cup you didn't qualify) they got nothing. They both got CHC in the end despite being very wealthy as it was seen as nursing.

I think it depends how your DP’s assets are shared. We were in a similar position with DILs but “D”Fil had always been old fashioned, read very controlling, with money all of the savings were in his name and DMIL had very little. So yes, her care was paid for.

Sorry to hear of your situation. Just a note to be aware of. Should CHC be approved this will be reviewed and they can remove the funding should your circumstances improve or for whatever reason you no longer meet the threshold.

Obviously you’re right in principle. But where’s the fairness when one person is frugal and saves for their care, and the next spends recklessly with the aim of relying on the taxpayer?

Personally, I'd like a system where the "care" element was state funded, but general board, lodgings, food etc was privately funded. It doesn't seem unreasonable for the elderly person to pay their own living costs (food, accomodation, heating, laundry), but I think that the need for "care" is surely a medical one. Healthy people don't need someone to spoon feed them, wash them, toilet them etc

Really sensible suggestion!

I believe you are Correct OP. However I contacted AgeUK and they were very helpful in discussing our personal situation and advising. At least you then know for definite as there can be mitigating factors (eg if your DF or someone else over a certain age lives in the house they cannot be made to sell it). You then also have the comeback if “I have had it assessed” to anyone that is annoying you about this.

I have successfully secured CHC funding for my mum. She has vascular dementia with Alzheimer’s.
we received the criteria and were asked to fill in relevant sections. I managed to argue to get her scored higher in most areas. We also got a priority for behaviour. She is violent, screams a lot and is sedated at times.
This priority behaviour score got us funding.
you need to really argue that constant supervision is needed, behaviour is unpredictable. Also focus on nursing needs- carers can use hoists etc- this won’t score.
medication- time critical, insulin, Parkinson’s meds etc
sedation required
i was told she could walk so wouldn’t score but because she’s a very high falls risk she scored higher!
A patient who is immobile and well behaved will score low. A dementia patient walking around attacking staff etc will score much higher. It’s a strange system.
if you put all medical problems etc in chat gpt it will tell you what to focus on and what your chances are.

good luck with everything xx

Thank goodness you and your sibling get along and you can support one another through this. Explore all options such as previous post Respite. Befriending service to take your dad out for a break. Maybe you and your sister visit together one day per week, one focus on mum the other take dad for a coffee/walk, drop him off at a friends house or community group. Dad is struggling but it’s sad this is the driving force for mum to leave her home for a care home, without exhausting all over options first. Especially if family members wish mum to stay at home too. If ultimately mum goes into care at least your conscious is clear that you tried everything first to avoid this. Also please reach out to providers who offer support for carers. I live in North Yorkshire and a local carers support group has helped me with counselling, NHS complaints process and now Bereavement counselling. Best wishes with everything.

Thank you for this, this is very useful because my FIL did qualify for CHC and I couldn't quite understand why, when so many people don't seem to.
He also had vascular dementia and Alzheimer's, was incontinent and was living with my MIL who was fit and able for someone of 80. However, a lot of the problem for her looking after him was that she is 4'11" and he was 6'1", built like a rugby player with hands like shovels and would frequently get agitated and start chucking the furniture around. He seemed physically healthy compared to some others who have been refused CHC.
In the end, he had a fall and went into hospital in an ambulance and stayed there for 3 months before a care home was found. My MIL came to stay with us for those 3 months, because she was absolutely terrified that an ambulance might suddenly appear outside their house and deliver him back to her to care for 😭.
I feel for all families who have the sadness of one of them suffering with dementia 😥words can't express how upsetting and stressful it is.

My sil tried very hard to get nhs care funding - spent s lot of time and emotional energy on it and ultimately got nowhere. The money side of things has been a nightmare - social services don’t seem very clued up on the what’s and wherefores. Finding the info is half the battle.

I saw the discussion about self-funding, CHC and how easily families can misunderstand the assessment rules. My grandmother's situation was similar, and while looking into it we came across a £69 Care Home Funding Report that explained the means test, CHC and evidence routes in plain English. Would a worked example like that have helped this thread?

That is almost the current system in that once someone is in a Care Home funded by their local council they are only allowed to keep a small amount of pocket money from their state pension, the rest goes in their care fees.

Everyone is only allowed to keep a few pounds of their own money. Anything more is deprivation of assets. Which makes the fact that the self funders are subsidising the state funded residents even more infuriating. And guess who has to worry about being moved when their money runs out and which families are asked to top up fees.

Yes that’s totally infuriating. Awful that even though they’re paying themselves they can’t buy themselves a couple of new frocks or whatever in case it’s considered DOA later down the line. God it’s urgent that it gets sorted out asap, amongst other reasons it’s so unfair atm

I'd like to see them argue the case for buying some new clothes.

I am in a similar situation and making a note of everything going out of the account in case it's queried. If it's thousands disappearing out of an account then you'd have to come up with an explanation.

Clothes disappear regularly. I asked to take MIL's clothes home to wash but still things went missing. She went in with 10 practical, comfortable outfits, plenty of nightwear, shoes, slippers. All named.
Yet when we went in to visit she would be dressed in an old tatty frock, bed socks and crocs. All not her own and several sizes too big. This was a so called "good" care home. I gave up replacing things.

Omg that's awful, that's not been our experience at all thank goodness. Sorry that's happened to your MIL .