Am I right that most elderly people must self-fund care if they have assets?

[Coffeeisnotmycupoftea]

People telling me time and again that my mum could get care home fees paid for by the government and I am certain they are wrong.

Mum is in the advancing stages of Alzheimer's having suffered now for 8 years. Between my father, my sister and I we have been caring for her ourselves. We now have a team of carers coming in 3 times a day as we are trying are best to keep her at home, for as long as possible.

We really don't want to put mum into a home if we can help it even though it is becoming a struggle (more for dad as he feels he has no life). This is not because of the fear of losing money as it's costing over £1k per week for the home carers as it is. It's more that we can keep an eye on her care at home and have yet to find a home we like the look of (have been viewing quite a few of late) but the truth is that mum will more than likely need to go into a care home within the next 6 months to a year as her care needs progress.

My parents have assets. I have looked into everything for them and have had SS round to do assessments etc and each and every time we are told care would need to be paid for in full by my parents (with AA and pensions included) because they have well over the £23,250 threshold. My parents FA has also given this information to us. We are fine with this and fully aware if you have any assets you need to pay for your care.

However, so many people we know tell us that mum should and would qualify for 'free' care. They seem to believe that continuing healthcare is really easy to get and I keep hearing their stories that their mum or dad are getting getting care home fees paid for free despite them owning property or having lots of savings etc. My sister is now pushing for us to find out more because someone she works for is telling her we absolutely must not pay for care home fees as we can get it paid for (??).

I am fed up telling them that isn't the case for a large percentage of people and most will have to fund their own care fees whether that is at home care or in a care facility.

I am right, aren't I? That most people with substantial savings and/or a home of their own will need to fund their own care? (I understand a house can not be sold whilst a spouse is living there but if they die the house will need to be sold to pay for the fees?)

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what is the criteria for qualifying for CHC?

My mum has multiple health issues including breast cancer and heart disease as well as the dementia but she still wouldn't qualify.

Yes I think you should pay for your care, fortunately all our family members dropped dead and didn't need it.

Contact Age UK and they will explain everything correctly.
It is complicated so worth getting correct information.

Continuing Health Care comes out of the NHS budget. This means the individual must have a health need rather than a social need. Someone explained it to me as would the individual require a registered nurse to care for them on a daily basis.

Possibly because of the large numbers of people who would otherwise claim CHC, dementia isn't usually classed as a health need. Most people will have to rely on Social Services or self-funding.

I can only reinterate the comments made by other posters. The AgedUK website is very good for the financial side of things.

What I would say is this - my dad was very reluctant to place my Mum in a care home, very reluctant. They had carers going in 4 times a day with support from my Dsis and me but as these things often happen a crisis occured and there was no choice. Luckily for us Mum got a place at a wonderful care home at short notice. The care home manager said to my Dad 'We will make you a husband again rather than a carer' and they did. My Dad thrived and continues to do so. He visited my Mum pretty much daily until her death just under 2 years after admission. In retrospect Mum should have been admitted to a care home about a year before she actually was.

There comes a point with someone suffering with dementia when the health and welfare of the remaining spouse / family actually becomes more important. I know that sounds a harsh, even cruel thing to say but the worry, sacrifices and physical strain takes a very heavy toll. It did on my Dad far more than any of us realised. I would suggest you think of the situation from your father's perspective, his on-going health and well being.

Same here, DF is completely immobile (two person hoist transfer), doubly incontinent/catheterised, skin conditions requiring daily nursing care, very limited use of non-dominant arm (no use of dominant arm), blood thinners and all sorts of other meds, spoon fed, but well behaved and cooperates with his carers in the home. We went through the process, he scraped through the first stage (checklist) with exactly the pass score, went through the full assessment which was fair and thorough, I have a SEND young adult and am very used to this sort of thing, he came nowhere near being eligible. Yet people keep telling DM - oh, you should appeal, so and so got it and she wasn't as bad, get your DD (me) to help. He does get the lower rate one though.

If you google your local authority name and continuing healthcare checklist you should find the first part assessment and how the scoring works, I found this useful to assess him myself before the social worker did it.

Luckily for us Mum got a place at a wonderful care home at short notice. The care home manager said to my Dad 'We will make you a husband again rather than a carer' and they did.
That is so lovely. If only all care home managers and carers had this mindset.

You are absolutely correct. Neither of my parents went into care (they died at 93 and 96), for which I was grateful, but HMCE are now helping themselves to a chunk of IHT… but it’s still cheaper than if they’d spent that money on care. (Another story.. they point blank refused).
Continuing Health Care is very hard to get. When my dad was comatose in hospital with heart failure there were discussions about where he could go if he didn’t die quickly… hospice or nursing home were the options. The discharge team told me he would qualify for CHC and they would do the paperwork. He died and so we didn’t need to apply.
My friend’s father had very advanced dementia and had complicated surgery after a fall and he didn’t qualify. He could do nothing for himself at all.
I am of the age when many of us have very elderly parents and I don’t know anyone who has been awarded CHC.

Yes, of course you’re right. If your sister doesn’t believe it, let her go ahead and “find out more” without dragging you into a futile search.

A lot of people believe that State assistance and benefits are available when they’re not. When I had twins I was confidently told I was entitled to a home help (nope). My work colleagues believed I’d get tons of child tax credit, not realising it was means tested and I’d get a small fraction of the maximum. They also thought the childcare allowance meant completely free childcare, when it was just a tax break on the cost of childcare.

Some people think PIP is an unemployment benefit and it’s commonly believed that the amounts are much higher than they are. I’ve seen claims that people are driving round in free BMWs.

It’s all part of the culture of believing “those other people are getting free money, most of them don’t deserve it, and I’m paying for it”.

But can afford it for those who don't have the money?

You're not quite right.

It depends on what is held in your mums name.

Anything in your mum's name will need to be spent on her care (assuming that she doesn't get CHC).

If everything that is then left is in your DF's name apart from a joint share of the house then that cannot be touched. The house isn't taken into account whilst a spouse still lives there.

So in our situation my DP had £80k in DM's name. The house was in joint names. They then had about £270k in DF's name.

Once the 80k was spent (which at £1800 a week didn't take that long) then DM was eligible for funded care since she didn't have any other assets other than the house, but the house wasn't taken into account because DF still lived there.

If DF dies whilst DM is still alive and in a care home then at that point the other assets (if left to DM) would come into play again. This is why its important to assess and update wills etc.

It's also important to take into account income streams. DM had a good public sector pension and this all goes to fund her care. This affects DF's income stream.

I agree but we also need an electorate mature enough to understand there will be costs and trade offs and sadly we don’t have that. Instead everyone wants a simple answer to a complex problem which doesn’t impact on them or their inheritance adversely. The media don’t help as if Labour had tried the Mail, Express et al would have jumped in with both feet. Remember the “death tax”.

Well, not easily, but what's the alternative?

There isn't one.

We found getting CHC for my dad (vascular dementia) relatively straightfoward, but this was late 2020. Me and my sister read the guidance (easily found online), did our own assesment and agreed which areas to focus on rather than focusing on issues which would not make a difference.

Getting an assessment for mum in early 2025 was slightly different. One social worker visited and told me mum was fine and doing well. It took a while to get health services to do one (I was told becoming palliative on the weekend was not a good time) but they did and CHC was put through within days (just in time for a few days end of life care). However, I think that the GP only acted quickly because an amazing paramedic refused to leave mum until care was put in place. Because of him mum had a hospital bed that day, care at home etc. He literally marched into the GP surgery (a few doors down from mum) until something happened.

So slightly against the grain of other threads. I would say that your sister is right - it is worth pursuing, even if you don't get it.

Although even being able to get an assessment is incredibly challenging

Yes. Unfortunately, you are.

Even if you’re really, really incapacitated and can’t feed yourself and are incontinent, you don’t get anything much. Nor will you until people are prepared to be taxed for a care system that works for everybody, regardless of their working and contribution history.

Again though - only to the extent that there are assets left (excluding the house) in the DM's own name. Many older people will have a good chunk of their assets in the husband's name and this can't be touched and isn't taken into account at all in the calculations.

That's true, although councils often don't pay the weekly amount that the care actually costs. At the company I worked for, they had a guarantee that, once accepted they would 'top up' the difference once the person's money had run out. Many care homes wouldn't do this, so the person would need to be moved somewhere cheaper.

Agreed, which is why when you are choosing a self funded care home for the first in a couple to need care, it is really important to check their policy on what happens if the resident no longer has assets to self fund.

We do but it's my father who is refusing for mum to go into care, not my sister and I.

He resents spending the money and believes family (ie my sister and I) should look after elderly parents. I have been helping for 8 years, I am exhausted and unwell from my own health issues and feel it's time for mum to go into care but it is a constant battle with my father (I have started previous threads with regards to this).

If and when we do find the right home for her I feel her care will be better than we can offer her right now, even though she is well looked after regardless of the cost (I don't care about inheritance, I care about my health which is currently failing).

You need to request an assessment for Continuing Health Care.

No, but often what triggers them going into a home is the death of the spouse when they were caring for one another so then the survivor inherits it and it can all be used for care fees, including the proceeds of the house. Not in the OP's case, but I have seen it several times amongst my extended family.

OP if you find a care home you like then put your Mum on the waiting list, hopefully a place will then be available when you need it.

My parent spent 4 months in hospital after a massive heart attack. Due to the extent of the damage there wasn't any surgery they could have (or indeed survive). Eventually discharged to a council funded care home with a 12 week life expectancy so those 12 weeks would be fully funded as it was considered an 'end of life' placement. Didn't die and in fact got stronger but far too frail and now with diagnosed vascular dementia could not go home. The family found a private nursing home which fortunately had a place available. Family paid the deposit to hold the place and then moved my parent into it. (Activated LPA and now fees are covered from their account.)

I sat through the MDT CHC assessment. It's brutal but the chair went to great trouble to explain everything, let me comment and feel fully involved. The conclusion was that the nursing element (about £250 per week) could be funded but there were no grounds to award full funding. The decision was explained fully and it was the correct decision. I'll have to sit through it again in a few months time as it's reviewed annually. I expect the outcome to be the same.

The care home can only take 50% of savings into account and not the house at all if there is a spouse or partner so your Dad won't be made homeless or left destitute paying for care for your Mum. It's a brutal process so it's helpful if the family are united. My FIL was in a care home and he thrived there whilst MIL was able to also get her life and interests back. She visited regularly and they had quality time together.

Good luck.

We have a very similar situation.

Mum has just under £100k in her account and AA and pensions go in there too. Dad has his own account with his savings in. I know the house can not be taken into account if mum went into care and dad was still alive.

My dad stresses that if mum were to go into a home and her money was used within, say a year or so he would have to start paying out from his savings but I have told him he shouldn't have to do that as he may well need his money to pay for any future care needs that he may encounter.