WWYD? Worried my elderly grandad may no longer be safe to drive

[HollieTalbut1997]

Hi, really grateful for any advice on this.
My Grandad is mid-80s and still driving. He is very forgetful, tired and slow. Probably early dementia but nothing diagnosed yet. He struggles to make decisions and react to things in general life so I am worried about him driving still - I haven’t seen him driving recently but based on how he is in general I can’t imagine he is safe in the car. I spoke to my auntie about this and she also feels the same as me - she has brought it up with my grandparents but my grandma shut the conversation down and said he is fine.

My Grandma is very much the ‘boss’ in the marriage and my grandad will do whatever she says, especially due to him struggling to make decisions himself now and has a huge reliance on her.

I have also spoken to my dad about my concerns (he is very much the golden child in my grandmas eyes, so I do think if he raised concerns she might listen). However my dad basically said he gets my points but doesn’t think it’s up to him to say anything and doesn’t want to remove their independence.

I think this is ridiculous as if my grandad hurt someone else I wouldn’t be able to forgive myself for not acting. My dad is very selfish and I think is ultimately worried about having to help them more. They do live in a town with access to buses etc so it’s not as if they would be isolated.

I’m now totally stuck as to what I should do next. My auntie is reluctant to raise it again after being shot down, and there is history there with my grandma of her making my aunt out to be the bad person so I understand her reluctance. What would you do?

My grandad also got caught speeding recently and is going on a speed awareness course this week. Is any of this likely to be picked up as part of that? I’ve never had to go on the course so not sure what it consists of.

My father had macular degeneration and I was horrified that the medical professionals who made the diagnosis didn't tell him he couldn't drive anymore. I honestly thought there should be an automatic process to report any diagnoses that might impare driving ability to the DVLA rather than relying on people to report themselves.

The trouble is, without a diagnosis that means he has to give up, some of the suggestions here, however well meaning, would mean the OP could face a charge of theft or criminal damage.

Got any reliable stats to back that up @ProudAmberTurtle?
And, while you are at it, how about posting some stats about elderly drivers speeding as was the case here?

Edited to say, no one is saying elderly people shouldn't drive. But elderly people who present a danger to other road users, greater than that of the average driver, should. And the grandad sounds to me like he does.

59% of all road deaths are caused by speeding.

https://www.brake.org.uk/get-involved/take-action/mybrake/knowledge-centre/uk-road-safety

So what's stopping you from reporting people you know who are speeding? A serious rta? A accident which causes life-changing injuries? A dead body?

I didn't go through the stats closely but it didn't seem to me that there was any data on the number of speeding drivers who were elderly. Car occupant deaths but they would not necessarily have been the driver. And in any case, what do they say about lies, lies and damn statistics.

Obviously you have a bee in your bonnet about this bou are being silly telling me to report speeding drivers. No one is suggesting that an elderly person who makes a mistake - such as breaking the speed limit - should be immediately reported. It's about noticing a pattern of behaviour and taking into consideration the whole person and considering how competent they are likely to be behind the wheel.

Agreed- this is a growing problem with an aging population and rather than expecting elderly people to do it themselves or berate adult DCs for not doing it, there should be a standard process particularly if the medical evidence against driving is strong.
We don’t ask learner drivers to make the decision when they are capable of driving solo or expect their DPs to make it, so why is it not handled similarly towards the end of people’s driving?

Disconnect the battery. If he has cognitive decline, he is unlikely to be able to complete thw series of tasks required to then start the car. Whereas to an extent, driving is muscle memory

So agree with this. My Dad has had three heart attacks and is 90 years old. He then had a hospital admission where they thought he was about to have another. My Dad rang me a couple of days later wanting me to drive him to a hospital appointment (some 10 mins from his home but about about 1hr 30 from mine but that’s a whole other thread) as tge cardiologist told him he couldn’t drive until they’d completed further tests.

Two days later I find out he’s driving again and when challenged claimed he didn’t remember them saying that and it was fine. This was backed up by my overbearing Mum who will say anything that benefits her. I rang the well-being nurse who had been dealing with them if she could find something in writing to confirm he shouldn’t drive but she couldn’t and we ended up being stuck. He did see the Cardiologist some 4 weeks later and claimed nothing was said about his driving so he was fine to carry on. Like other posters there really needs to be some mechanism in place to alert the DVLA that they shouldn’t be driving so official letters can be sent out. My Dad does have mild cognitive decline so it’s genuine at times he doesn’t remember things but I don’t think this was the case here.

Doctors seem very reluctant to tell people they should stop driving. Like a PP my dad was still driving with macular degeneration in both eyes and only stopped when a junior doctor expressed surprise that he had driven to an appointment. I suspect dad was actually happy to stop but he would never cross my overbearing mum. Mum was still perfectly ok to drive but was very "it's the man's place to drive when we go out together". Once a doctor told him it wasn't advisable he had an excuse. But my mother never accepted when he couldn't do things. Even when he could barely stand or see she moaned he was lazy not taking turns with the ironing.

@2dogs222 sorry shouldn't laugh on such a serious subject but your typo (predictive text change probably) of 'sold the cat' with your user name has made me laugh outloud🤣

My mum was 83 when she started having more and more little 'prangs' in her car. We were starting to think about what to do, when one day she was driving home from my sisters, decided to put her seat belt on whilst she was pulling away, and went into the first lamp post she came across. She demolished the lamp post and the council later came round to remove it and replaced it with another.

But that was it. We refused to get the car repaired, it was practically a write off anyway. My issue was not her safety, it was the safety of anyone who may just have been passing by, who she would have driven into, instead of the lamp post. It was a quiet family estate, lots of dog walkers and children etc.

She wasn't happy. But there was nothing she could do as we refused to sort it for her.

So that’s why the engine was purring!

I went through this with my dad and my (non driving) mum, who insisted all was fine and the prangs and near misses were always the other driver's fault - including the man who was driving along when my dad's car hurtled down a hill backwards towards him as he had forgotten to put the handbrake on!
It caused quite a big rift in the family actually as my parents lived in the middle of nowhere and expected their children to drop everything and give them lifts everywhere as it was 'our fault' my dad did not drive anymore.
I am convinced we need a new law with a drop-dead age when driving has to stop - say 80. This would focus the mind of all the elderly living in totally unsuitable locations on the assumption they will just keep driving forever.
I know some people might - and I say might advisedly - be capable of driving at 90, but they will be very much in the minority and in my experience is more down to a refusal to accept reality rather than a actual ability

When I worked as a civilian for the police years ago, it was hard not to notice a definite pattern when it came to serious and fatal rtcs - very young drivers and very old ones. A decline in safe driving ability as people age IS a thing and anyone who insists otherwise is deluding themselves.

Could you do that thing the group that dislikes SUVs did and screw the tyre valve caps on with a lentil underneath them so his tyres deflate?

I think @lionbreath2 said that granddad had locked the car in the garage and hidden those keys too. And if he has dementia, he will have forgotten where all these keys are, probably.

Been here sadly. We went to the GP with my relative for a referral to the memory clinic after a couple of nightmare journeys - he got very lost on familiar routes, clipped wing mirrors, drove the wrong way up a one way street etc. His wife refused to admit there was an issue with his driving as it would mean he couldn't chauffeur her around. The GP refused to do anything about his driving. After tests confirmed dementia the memory care physician said he should stop as he had no spatial awareness. But you have to self refer to the DVLA - which my relative refused to do! Luckily for us his licence needed renewing and I completed his form for him and included a covering note as his POA saying that I felt it should not be renewed. The DVLA cancelled his licence, I sold his car and set up an account with a local taxi firm who sent me monthly invoices. He was as mad as hell - but with the DVLA, not me!

GPs can inform the DVLA if someone isn’t fit to drive, so I’m surprised a poster said theirs wouldn’t.

I reported my ex-husband to the DVLA (although not anonymously) because no other bugger would do it. Our children were wringing their hands and whining that they 'couldn't do this to him', 'he'd never get over it' (although what this all came down to was that they wouldn't get his money when he died) and so on ad nauseum. I reasoned that if he wasn't stopped, then at some point I would get a phone call saying that he'd killed someone - and my first thought would be 'Well, I saw that coming.' So I reported him, and he had to stop driving.

You are responsible. He is a dangerous driver but you let him get behind the wheel. Would you gaily wave off someone driving while drunk? Same thing.

After a nurse thankfully told my mum at her esrly dementia diagnosis not to drive I told her her insurance wasn’t valid anymore and she would get into trouble with the police if she drove. It was heartbreaking as she loved driving and I felt really harsh but it was much better than her having an accident. Thankfully she was a five minute walk away from shops etc so could still get out independently for a while.We never left the keys hanging around in case she forgot.

Why did they think they wouldn’t get his money if he died?

Report to his GP and also the dvla and local police

We have an elderly relative who stopped going to the optician because he believed they would stop him driving. We know this because the optician is his neighbour who mentioned him missing his appointments -presumably deliberately- when we visited.
He absolutely shouldn’t have been driving and knew it.
He’s immobile now due to illness and the car isn’t roadworthy or MOT’d. In the end, another relative had a firm word when he suggested getting the car fixed up for when he was better.

This!
Can’t believe you haven’t already!