WWYD? Worried my elderly grandad may no longer be safe to drive

[HollieTalbut1997]

Hi, really grateful for any advice on this.
My Grandad is mid-80s and still driving. He is very forgetful, tired and slow. Probably early dementia but nothing diagnosed yet. He struggles to make decisions and react to things in general life so I am worried about him driving still - I haven’t seen him driving recently but based on how he is in general I can’t imagine he is safe in the car. I spoke to my auntie about this and she also feels the same as me - she has brought it up with my grandparents but my grandma shut the conversation down and said he is fine.

My Grandma is very much the ‘boss’ in the marriage and my grandad will do whatever she says, especially due to him struggling to make decisions himself now and has a huge reliance on her.

I have also spoken to my dad about my concerns (he is very much the golden child in my grandmas eyes, so I do think if he raised concerns she might listen). However my dad basically said he gets my points but doesn’t think it’s up to him to say anything and doesn’t want to remove their independence.

I think this is ridiculous as if my grandad hurt someone else I wouldn’t be able to forgive myself for not acting. My dad is very selfish and I think is ultimately worried about having to help them more. They do live in a town with access to buses etc so it’s not as if they would be isolated.

I’m now totally stuck as to what I should do next. My auntie is reluctant to raise it again after being shot down, and there is history there with my grandma of her making my aunt out to be the bad person so I understand her reluctance. What would you do?

My grandad also got caught speeding recently and is going on a speed awareness course this week. Is any of this likely to be picked up as part of that? I’ve never had to go on the course so not sure what it consists of.

Email DVLA AND his GP... this is not about your grandfather or your grandmother, this is about every other person on the road/pavement... and their safety.
If you knew someone was drink driving on a regular basis, would you not report them? This is exactly the same thing with the same possible horrific outcome.

(see the approbation elsewhere on MN directed at non-drivers)

Do you mean "approbation"? I've not seen threads or comments applauding or vilifying non-drivers, so I'm not sure what you mean.

My mum has stopped driving for health reasons (I think she was concerned she would be in too much pain doing certain manoeuvres), and my dad has reduced the amount he drives. Mum has another driver living with her, and Dad lives in an area with reasonable alternatives, so I think neither would take unnecessary risks.

Yes I used the wrong word there. I meant the opposite.
I have seen many threads where non-drivers are vilified.

Stopping someone driving because of ability based concerns is very different from reporting a drunk driver though. If you’re over the alcohol limit then that’s illegal and clearly should be reported. With driving it’s not as black and white, until the day it becomes so.

With DF I thought he probably wasn’t going to be safe driving, so I got him to drive me with him to one of his hospital appointments. His driving was acceptable so I didn’t feel I could report him. It was only when the gardener reported his reversing and we checked the car that I had concrete facts and felt that reporting him to DVLA was absolutely the right thing to do, although gardener should have done it himself.

Something as important as this shouldn’t be left singlehandedly down to adult DCs to report, not least because not everyone has one. Going forward I would be much more likely to report dangerous driving if I saw it. Currently it’s a societal responsibility, but it is beyond me why they don’t just have some mandatory testing and medical issues reporting or blanket ban by age with retest if you want your license back.

Is he keeping up with getting the car insured/ taxed / MOTd ? This is checkable on the DVLA bit of gov.uk.
If not then it's easy to argue that he shouldn't be driving.

A friend discovered that her parent's car wasnt taxed, insured or motd ...and then took the car away .

I know it's not the same and much more difficult to make a judgement on it. But the outcome is potentially the same. I wanted to make the comparison to provoke thought on it and how serious it could be.

That's a valid point. The elderly driver with undiagnosed dementia that killed a little toddler a few years ago (mounted the kerb when he and his mum were on the pavement) had apparently 'phoned and cancelled her insurance shortly prior to the accident because she "only used her car once a week to go to the shops" and didn't want to pay for it. (Elderly driver cancelled insurance before toddler died in crash - BBC News). Letting normally-standard paperwork slide is another common sign that things might not be fully well.

I've got a friend who was fretting about her elderly mum's driving and had reported her to the DVLA. The removal of the car was accelerated before the DLVA could act on the report because her mother took exception to the health declaration questions on the standard licence renewal form and refused in a rage to send it off. Her licence therefore expired, invalidating her insurance and she got stopped when the car pinged on ANPR as having no valid insurance. It wasn't pleasant, but it was a blessing in blue-flashing-light-disguise. My friend later found a load of reminder letters, warnings and a cancellation notice all from the insurance company, opened and shoved in the back of one of her mum's kitchen drawers.

This.

My mum, at 89, had 2 replacement knees and ended up unable to walk. She was STILL convinced that, if she could just get back up on her feet again she would be able to drive.

Exactly. Would they also turn a blind eye to drunk drivers.

The terrible case a few posts above (which involved the death of a toddler) resulted in my mother deciding to stop driving in her early 80s. The accident happened very near her home and that, combined with the fact that she didn’t really use the car very much, made it an easy decision. She sold the car before we could say anything but I was just very relieved and supportive as I’ve had a number of friends go through this.

I agree with others here that you should report it to DVLA. I appreciate you’ve not seen him drive but I think you’ve got enough context from others to make that call.

Suggest
Ask relatives when they had their last eye test at opticians
They should attend yearly

Example
After yearly optician appointments

My elderly relative was advised this year that their eyes were below the minimum standard to drive. They sold their cat & no longer drive.
They do receive attendance allowance
It was best that a medical person informed them that they could no longer drive !

@HollieTalbut1997 - we went through something similar to this with my FIL. We had reports from people we trusted, who said his driving was becoming very erratic, and they’d seen a couple of near misses. Dh and his brother discussed it, and decided to write to FIL, to tell him he needed to stop driving (he lived a long way from all of us, so dropping in for a chat wasn’t practical). He was actually relieved to get the letter, and acted on it at once.

One thing that helped was dh laying out the savings he’d make by giving up the car, and how that would make it affordable for him to get taxis when he needed to.

Maybe you need to have this discussion with your grandad and your grandma together? I do understand that it isn’t an easy discussion to have, but it is better than letting it lie, and then something terrible happening, and him causing injury to someone else.

Problem is some people know better than medical professionals who are simply not up to the job!
Don't get me wrong, it's good advice, but wouldn't work in my situation which I posted about earlier.

We pussy footed around my dad and the in-laws. I don't remember in my teen years getting this sort of empathetic response to supporting me learning to drive. There was no extra practicing in the family car due to 'what might happen' if I pranged the cheap Talbot hatchback.

Hi OP

Sorry for this difficult situation.

My 82 year old dad started having difficulties for probably about ten years. Basic lack of road sense, spatial awareness, sometimes blanked on which lane to use.

The thing I found hard was the fact that he lived overseas for years in an area not known for orderly driving, and he always managed really with that. I would have cried at driving there.

Anyway, he had a significant car accident (amazingly walked away but with substantial injuries, cars written off).

He stopped driving them, thank God.

I regret not being assertive earlier. Tbf, I did speak to his partner and my brother who both pushed DF to reconsider, but that didn't go down well.

We were lucky that what happened was not more serious. Don't be like me

I'm glad that you are going to do something. Undoubtedly you and the rest of the family would bear some responsibility should there be an accident. In a nearby city a 16 year old was killed when an elderly driver mounted the kerb. That incident has stayed with me.

Sorry to hijack but I’m in a similar position. My grandad is in his early nineties and recently diagnosed with vascular dementia. He was driving ok prior to this but his health has declined and he surrendered his license after being reported driving very slowly in the middle of the night (he got lost). Another driver called the police and they followed him home and encouraged him to surrender. The car has since been SORN.

However he is extremely unhappy about this and still believes he is fit to drive. He is very belligerent about this and often quite nasty. We’ve told him he no longer has his license and the car isn’t legally allowed on the road. But he has hidden the keys and keeps threatening to drive anyway. My mum is mostly dealing with him and it’s making her very stressed and anxious especially because nobody knows where the keys are. He genuinely believes he is still a competent driver. Does anyone have any ideas how to deal with this?

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@lionbreath2
Likely to make him angry is the only issue.

There is really nothing you can do @lionbreath2 apart from immobilising the car as pp suggests. What a nightmare. There's an old lady in my mum's care home who is always asking everyone where her car is and keys are and that she needs to drive here, there and everywhere! It's just part of the condition.

We are trying this but he also has his garage keys which he’s also reluctant to hand over.

Locksmith and forced lock change? He sounds very difficult but you can't risk him getting in that car (daresay the battery would be flat by now anyway!)

Lock in front of the garage then @lionbreath2
A defender type that is drilled into the ground ideally or just a slide lock with a padlock.

You've got no evidence bar he was recently caught speeding that his age is putting other road users at risk.

The two closest people to him in his family don't agree with you. It doesn't sound like you even have much direct contact with him.

But you're still going to anonymously report him in the hope that he will lose his independence?

You could always do another option - and just not get involved?

Do you think everyone caught speeding should lose their licence?

What evidence do you want @ProudAmberTurtle?
A serious rta? A accident which causes life-changing injuries? A dead body?
There are a number of things in the OP which suggest that the OP's grandfather should stop driving.
As for the people closest to him being not being in agreement (and actually in the father's case it's more that he doesn't want to act than he doesn't agree), ever heard of burying your head in the sand?

Speeding drivers kill far more people than elderly drivers do.

Why don't you jot down the licence plate of every car that speeds past your home and anonymously report them to the DVLA?