Am I mean? Wd like some perspective

[runningpram]

We have an elderly relative who around six months ago started asking for money every month. It's typically around £100 to £200 - so not a huge amount.

We also give elderly relative some money every month anyway to help them out.

We can sort of afford the extra but it means things like DC not doing activities, or me having to delay getting a coat or get hair cut. These aren't huge sacrifices I absolutely don't want relative going without and struggling, so don't mind in principle as elderly relative only has state pension plus other small pension - so is obviously badly impacted by cost of living.

However they do a lot of travelling around the country some times to see us but mostly to catch up with friends - which adds up to a lot.

I tried to talk to relative about this and they said in return they thought I owed them money for buying treats for DC when they came to visit, which they have never mentioned before. To be clear - treats are basically ice creams, snacks while out and about etc. We usually give cash for these but sometimes relatives has bought clothing (nothing massively expensive) without asking us but this has always been described as a present.

They have done a little childcare before but only when they are visiting us and it is a case of sitting on the couch with DC in bed and being on call if there is an emergency. We get DC ready for bed and DC have always gone to nursery. By contrast they have done huge amounts of full time childcare for other side of family - which is fair enough because they live closer. We always pay train fares etc if elderly relative comes down and stays.

The issue I'm having is the constant demands - they've even now started to ask when I'll get paid!! They don't ask other side of family for anything as they are not in position to help. This is fair enough but I work full time - which has been quite a sacrifice for me over the years and elderly relative has had the odd negative comment to say about this, which I've let go. DH's role isn't super well paid - so I keep our heads above water.

Recently things have come slightly to a head as elderly relative has announced they are going on an expensive holiday. They were initially suggesting I should 'loan' them the cash. They have now got the cash from elsewhere in the shape of a loan from a friend. Clearly it is their business but if they money requests start again - can I refuse? They have been given a sizeable loan and have chosen to spend it on a hol. HOWEVER this is a longed for holiday late in life

I honestly don't know if I am being a meanie or not. Elderly relative is a really kind loving person- I am actually a bit worried for them generally as this is all slightly out of character.

Am I a meanie or am I stupid and naive? Pls some perspective and kind advice on how to deal with this.

Your ER is taking advantage of your kind nature. Stop being a pushover and put your children first. You could set up a direct debit to pay one of her bills and say that's all you can afford as you need to start putting money aside for your children's future university costs.

You mention cultural expectations, what about your cultural expectations ? Why does your ER's expectations trump yours ?

My dad is and always has been a gambler and now lives in poverty (has enough to eat and heat but no luxuries). He's never given bday or christmas gifts to my dc which is fine. If he would ask me for money I would want to know why- ir would have t9 be for something urgent or it would be no. My dc are my priority. I don't spend alot on myself but my dc would never go without unless it's a life or death situation. And this is my father.

I send him food and stuff for christmas - lives in another country but that's it.

Well yes logically - that would usually be the case. However ER is elderly and has only recently started to act like this. So it has crossed my mind there is something going on with their cognition and ability to make rational decisions.

no not in my culture but i think ER sees the example of this other culture as something admirable.

So what if ER thinks her cultural expectations are admirable. They are not yours !

Agree with PPs that this has to stop, although I would say immediately, rather than wait until the new year. Do not commit to £50 per month or to cover a particular direct debit.

Has something changed in the elderly person's circumstances? Are they gambling, or have they signed up to multiple charity direct debits - and if so, are they being pressured to give more money? It happens. Asking when you will be paid smacks of desperation and does suggest this person's demands of you are going to increase.

I would offer to help them with the practicalities of getting finances in order, claiming any benefits etc. Ask them how they intend to repay the holiday loan, and will it be with interest?

The 'cultural' chat can easily be shut down. In your culture you provide for your children and you are no longer prepared for them to go without.

I think that after this time that you've already agreed to give them some money, you've got to stop. Make it a new year thing if you want to give yourself a cut off date.

You say that it's a close relative, an elderly relative. That they own their own home that they have a pension and this is not a case of if you don't give them the money they'll be on the streets or they'll have nothing to eat. That they're using the money that you're sending them for entertainment for themselves for traveling etc.
You say in your first post that you can afford it but then you say in subsequent post that to afford it you have to deny your children activities and things that you would buy them. You also say that you're concerned that if you lose your job, you definitely won't be able to afford it.

You say that it's this person is claiming that you "owe them" because when your kids were little they would buy things like ice cream as a present for your kids, and now you owe the money because of that.
(Not that it matters that much but you say the other side of the family are not being asked for these requests)
You say that this person you trust to babysit your children and has sat in the room with them when needed in the past but it's been five or six years at least... I can understand not wanting to burn your Bridges when it comes to emergency child care but if they are getting to the point that you're not sure if cognitively they are being unreasonable to be shaking you down for money, perhaps you shouldn't be letting them watch your kids, (again, just as backup not as primary childminder)

And they really are shaking it down. It's not just the occasional request or hint for money, you said that they are calling you and asking you when you going to pay them next. That sounds really demanding and it has gone beyond "you helping them out".
It's like extortion!

If you really think that it's no financial burden to you and it makes you feel good to support them, and you honestly have no hard feelings about this at all, no regret that you're denying your kids, no bitterness that you are being exploited... Then go ahead and keep giving. Well I'd say giving but it's not really your choice is it? Go ahead and keep being bled. That's a better way of saying it.

Helping this relative financially is having a detrimental impact on your children.

As far as I am concerned, adult children aren't responsible for financially supporting their elderly relatives. They sound cheeky and entitled rather than kind and loving. You are not able to give them money without it having a negative impact on what you can afford to buy for your DC who should be your main priority.

Expensive holidays aren't a necessity that you need to help them pay for. I'd be pretty pissed off tbh.

This is a very good way of summing up

I wouldn’t even pay them this last ‘request’. I’d just say somethings come up so you can’t fund this holiday.
as pp, they’re not using it to eat/heat!

This is getting into CF territory for sure. I'd be tempted to say 'never' when they ask when I'll be paid. And say I've been made redundant.

How on earth did they explain how you owe them money?

As they aren't one of your parents, they haven't brought you up and financially supported you to adulthood so they have absolutely no claim, legal, moral or otherwise, on your family's money.

They have taken your money and given more than half of it to the other side of the family. Irrespective of whether you like and are very close to the other side of the family, what this elderly relative did is unforgiveable.

Of course she does because she is the beneficiary! Did she support you financially when she was working?

“How on earth did they explain how you owe themmoney?
As they aren't one of your parents, they haven't brought you up and financially supported you to adulthood so they have absolutely no claim, legal, moral or otherwise, on your family's money.
They have taken your money and given more than half of it to the other side of the family. Irrespective of whether you like and are very close to the other side of the family, what this elderly relative did is unforgiveable.”

They said to another family member who asked about their finances that they were asking us for money - as they had spent a lot on treats for DC when staying with us.

I then challenged this with ER, gently reminding them that they had provided huge amounts of free childcare for other side of family, which meant they didn’t have to pay for childcare before state nursery age for any of their DC.

I don’t at all begrudge this and it was v kind of ER to do - but clearly that is worth far more cost wise than some ice creams and the occasional fish fingers in a cafe.

ER told me in response that I shouldn’t put a price tag on everything - which is in some ways hilarious but in other ways shows, rationality has gone out the window!

Are they also receiving money from other family members or are you the only one to capitulate? I would not be subsiding anyone at the expense of my children. They should look into Pension Credit to top up their income, I see you mentioned CAB, may I also suggest AgeUK as a great resource for looking into additional support for pensioners.
I agree that the new year should mark the end of this - good luck!

No - other family say they can’t afford to pay!

So did they do the same, as in supplemwnt and look after their own parents or elderly relatives?

So the other side of the family got all the free childcare, received some of the money that you gave to the ER and they make no financial contributions to the ER and aren't even asked to do so as they have made it clear that they can't afford to pay her anything.

You need to tell her that you can't afford it either. That is the truth as you and your family are going without stuff in order to give her money. This is unsustainable and unfair to you and your family.

Harden your heart and ignore the emotional blackmail that no doubt will come your way. Your family is your priority and your responsibility. This ER is not. You have already done more than your share to help her.

With all respect: What about treats and outings for your children, as well as developing their minds through hobbies. Do you have days away or holidays with your children? Why should they be deprived. Some might say that you aren't meeting your children's needs.

You really need to make a decision now. Inform them....And be prepared for real anger! They won't see that they are doing anything 'wrong'. They have inculcated that they are deserving.

All prices are rising, and in my opinion, your children should be your priority. By all means direct them to advice bureaux. It is their choice whether they accept it or not.

I understand that you may be concerned about there failing abilities. However, there is nothing you can do about this at present. When you have any clear evidence that something is wrong, that is when you can inform their G.P.

You sound a very caring person. You also sound that 'Guilt' is your middle name. Time to let that go.

I hope all goes well for you and your children.

Please draw a line now - no more money. And also make it clear you will not be paying for children's treats and presents when they visit.

They may be influenced by friends from other cultures however that doesn't mean you have to follow blindly. Your relative is taking advantage of your good nature and it's having a negative impact on your family life.

Yes i thibk they did actually. Not sure about the supplementing cash side of things but definitely a lot of care. Up until the past 18 months they have been generally (bar the comments about my work situ) lovely person to be around - which is why the situation has felt quite complex.

Something seems to have changed in that time - obviously cost of living crisis but they also seem to have been spending more and quite obsessively travelling the country.

Stop accepting any 'treats' for your children, because it will be thrown back in your face one hundred fold!

I'd give them maximum £80 a month

It sounds as though ER likes to travel around the country catching up with friends - telling them all what a fabulous lifestyle she has because she has a great (I'm assuming) DIL who really takes care of her, and now she's going on an expensive holiday! It seems as though you have slowly become a kind of enabler and ER is resorting to unreasonable comments (you owe her for ice cream over the years!) because she's afraid you'll stop funding the new identity she's created for herself among her peers.

I belong to a family where we financially support our elders, but my culture also heavily takes care of our children as well. It's one where no-one would bat an eyelid if an unmarried, adult child lived at home all expenses paid. Has ER done that for you / would she do that for you? I don't think she would.

I'm with other PPs: cut funding her lifestyle at soon as the new year kicks in and I wish you the best.