If my relationship with my mother was a website it would be called OnlyCrumbs

[Bluddyellfire]

I’ve spent a bit of time lurking in here recently, gaining strength from reading the experiences of others and it’s reassuring/ devastating in equal measure to realise that so many people unfortunately find themselves in a similar position of having a terrible relationship with their mother, the solution to which seems entirely to sit with the mother and not the daughter, at a time in the daughters’ lives when they could very much do without it. I typed out a really long post but I don't want to say it all now for fear of outing myself to maybe family members who would recognise me from the details.

Basically she's bloody worn me out with the endless talking me down, criticising, minimising, dismissing, talking over me, laughing when I say she's upset me, my entire life I could go on for pages. So much of the same sort of nonsense many other people have posted here previously.

From reading about how hard others have tried, like I have, I’ve concluded that it’s not me, it’s definitely her, and it was interesting to consider the theory that the performative indifference (I put myself through university as a mature student - why? What will YOU need a degree for???), been promoted several times at the organisation I've worked at for 20 years (REALLY??? Oh, right, they've not sacked you then...), I'm paying a mortgage on my own (no biggie apparently although she's never even worked since she got married 55 years ago beyond a bit of cleaning or a couple of evenings a week in the local corner shop in her 50s, never really taken much responsibility for anything just relied on DF), she just sniffs/ tuts/ shrugs/ makes 'that' face about it all then starts on again about how well DB is getting on, the idea that it could be rooted in jealousy/ regret around never having had any independence herself despite actively seeking out and maintaining a marriage and lifestyle in which she was completely dependent (her choice so here we are), I’m enabling her moaning and whingeing as well as wearing myself out, by keep offering solutions when what she actually wants is to wallow in the (non) problems (ok then, keep them, I've enough of my own), and I love the grey rocking suggestions, I’m on a steep learning curve here lads but I will be deploying that particular tactic henceforth before my head comes off completely! Bottom line, if she’s not asking for a solution I don’t need to find one and even if she IS asking for advice, she doesn’t have to take it, it’s on her if she doesn’t. I can’t fix her and I’m not going to let her wreck me.

I got about 3 hours sleep last night because I was so wound up after some snippy comments earlier in the day while finally getting her hearing aids fitted when I challenged her idea that they probably won't make much difference and anyway she actually CAN hear people perfectly well. This was after I said how frustrating it had been that she would start talking over me when I was halfway through saying something, that I'd thought it rude (er... no not really, she didn't think it was rude to talk over the top of somebody) but now I realised that she hadn't been able to hear me all this time, so it will be great to have proper conversations again, she just laughed and said she had to get going. As did I due to bunking off from WFH from my non job that she knows nothing about and which makes no demands of me.

I could carry on for hours I've got so many examples but I know a lot of people on here will know exactly what I'm up against and I'm here to say that I'm not doing it any more. I have a lifelong health issue which is minimised, laughed off, you give in to it, etc. SIL happens to have the same condition and DM will go on and ON about how SIL has 'had' to drop her hours because 'really she can only do so much' what with DN and a house to run etc. House to run??? Jeez. HTF does she think I manage with 'a house to run', a full time job never mind a couple of days a week, and no husband?

I was never good enough for her and at 50+ I'll clearly never be. But I'm good enough for me. She can keep DSIL, very mindful, very demure, and I'll keep my head on thank you. I'm attempting a bit of entry level grey rocking to see what happens, today she was asking can you freeze butter, so I googled it and sent her a link to something like 'everything you need to know about freezing butter and marg' on Good Housekeeping website and left it at that. I'm also encouraging DB to step up a bit seeing as he can do no wrong. He's seen a few tinges of it from her recently in the family Whatsapp chat where previously it had all been between me and her but I've engineered a few good po faced interactions with her in front of him as it were in the group chat, and he's slightly horrified, which is good I guess insofar as it shows it's not me. When I see her it's 3 solid hours of moaning, when he sees her she's a vision of radiant charm and pleasantness so up until now he's been a bit 'don't know what you're on about, she always seems fine to me'. He sees it now.

Anyway thanks for reading, it's clear I'm not alone and what I'm going through is familiar to many, which comforts me greatly.

🍷

Tidal wave of crap is right, she's now insisting that she's only ever told me the truth even though I can easily recall several versions of some of the stories, challenge her and she just tells me I've got it wrong and she never said it 💁

I do think there are elderly mothers who are actually jealous of their independent and very able and capable daughters- suspect this is the case here - just think bollox OP - hard I know!!

Yep, I figured that one out. Her performative helplessness seems pathetic against my whole 'supported myself through a degree as a single parent then built a career, bought a house and paying the mortgage off ALL BY MYSELF as well as knowing how to change a fuse/ unclog a sink/ any very minor thing that I'd still know how to do even if I had ever had married a man'.

As recommended by pp I'm working through Motherwell by Deborah Orr and I'm getting Danu Morrison's emails too so I'm right in the teeth of it at the moment 😫

@Bluddyellfire my mother was like this too - had little to talk about career wise ( did 4 years teaching and hated it) so relied on high earning husbands ( 2) - consequently used to pick on my weight or the fact we didn’t own a house but lived in lovely areas - not the fact we had a decent business etc .

Funny how they just seem to focus on entirely the wrong/ unimportant aspect(s) of anything that keeps us going, and we're the ones doing the keeping going, all day every day, not for her approval but bc that's life and you make your choices and you plough on with your plan. It's just such a kick in the tits. 'Well you don't get on with people' says her who's being ostracised now by the group for 'not realising' (due to her beefs) that another resident was in quite a bit of medical difficulty, because they 'didn't ask' her to help, and it's all on cctv, house mgr incredulous, called her right out on it, the performative indignity is beyond measure...

I think they were socialised to focus on appearance rather than intelligence or attainment. My mother is OBSESSED with asking when my daughter will get married, as if that’s the most important thing that matters. Not what she’s doing in her career, her hobbies, or whether she’s happy.

Mine is also focused solely on appearances.

I have found a couple of ways of pushing back- things that I would do with no one else- but which seem to work with her.

She makes very personal rude remarks about my appearance, very critical. I have started to say ‘I know, but your knees are so knobbly!’. It’s almost stopped it.

In your situation, when she’s sneering at your self sufficiency, you could answer something like - I know, I’d just hate not earning my own money like you. Yes, but imagine never having had a proper career like you.

As I say, I would never have that attitude, it doesn’t reflect my beliefs or values, but it’s been very effective at making mine pause the constant judgement. And she can’t complain because either judging other people’s choices is acceptable or it isn’t.

Yes that was all I was primed for, being found acceptable by a man, and found fault with therein (too tall/ a bit hefty/ too 'clever'/ crooked teeth - god that dental hospital, jesus christ they were absolute butchers). I never had any intention of being found acceptable by any man. As a teenager I wasn't the least bit interested in boys, would come out if I'd been brave enough to stare down the opprobrium but I wasn't, I took the path of least resistance and I've regretted that every day of my life since. I've got close friends who did do it, and I have nothing but respect for them.

Judging everybody else is entirely acceptable to her, what else is there to do in life when you're obviously perfect and you've never made a mistake like other, silly people (see Motherwell)? She hands it out like she fkin invented it but woe betide ANYBODY who gives it back. I've found that it can cause her to sulk for actual months. Which is starting to suit me VERY nicely 🤷🏻‍♀️👌🤣

Why have I never thought of that?

Oh I forgot- she regularly says she doesn’t criticise, she isn’t judging, she just notices 🤣

’I can’t help but notice that girls these days wear very unflattering clothes, and they are so fat. It’s hard to understand why they wear clothes that make them look so flabby and awful.’

And as for people who shop in Asda-
‘I have noticed that all the people there are terribly fat. They must buy a lot of unhealthy food. Lots of sausage rolls and dreadful fatty, stodgy things like that.’

God yes.. my mother going on about fat women. Never fat men oddly.

It’s very important to start the criticism with agreement!

So when she criticises me for ‘ looking very fat from behind in that dress, and your knees look really rather podgy!’, the reply is ‘Yes I know, but I’m so much taller than you it’s harder to get dresses the right length. If I were as short as you I’d have more choices.’

Always start by agreeing with her. It takes her much longer to spot the insult and it’s harder to answer.

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I absolutely love this approach. Good on you. Will be using this!

'If I was as short as you' pmsl

👌

@Bluddyellfire I do think there are a fair old amount of very elderly women who did little career wise but had a decent life due to moderately earning men when it was possible to buy homes and decent life styles on 1 wage or 1 and a bit of pin money . They seem to focus on absolute trivial stuff I think due to a lack of much going on in their lives .

Yeh that's the only currency they've got is that household economics worked differently 50+ years ago. She gave up work when she married, to be 'kept' 🤔 🤣

'Notices' lols

So glad it's not just me 💐 for you all!

@Crikeyalmighty well said re the elderly woman we are all dealing with being in a place where as you said ‘I do think there are a fair old amount of very elderly women who did little career wise but had a decent life due to moderately earning men when it was possible to buy homes and decent life styles on 1 wage or 1 and a bit of pin money . They seem to focus on absolute trivial stuff I think due to a lack of much going on in their lives ‘

That paragraph has unscrambled so much for me. You have absolutely nailed it. Thank you and thank you to @Bluddyellfire for this thread. Oh I also shop in Asda which irks my mother as apparently she could never find anything worth buying. Love the place myself.