Can I refuse to have my mother stay with me?

[Wheatlands]

My mother, aged 97, is currently in a high care unit that she was sent to after spending three weeks in hospital with pneumonia. When my husband called yesterday to ask about the plan for mum, the nurse said they are still giving her antibiotics, and she is having 'mobilisation therapy' and then they will be looking into her discharge. From what the nurse says, they intend to discharge her back to us, but with more carer visits. Before she went into hospital she had one carer visit a day.
Both my husband and I work fulltime. I work from home, but for 10 to 12 hours a day teaching English online and I risk my work if I have to leave a meeting to care for mum.
We have cared for her for 12 years, with her progressively needing more and more care. She falls often and I can't lift her on my own. She is incontinent and even with the nappies, needs a lot of cleaning. She needs attention during the night.
We are both completely exhausted - I have been battling a viral chest infection since before Christmas. I feel completely terrified. I don't want her to come back because we just can't cope any more. There is no other family help available.

Do I have the right to refuse to have her back?

Absolute rubbish, how dare they say that.
Yes the council will pay , get in touch with the discharge team at the hospital asap (some wards have their own)
Explain you can no longer look after her even with a FT carer , she needs a nursing or residential home.

I’m sure they can’t for parents . A spouse is different of course.

No, you do not have to have her back in your home. They have assumed you will because she was previously living there. Tell them asap you are not able to provide the safe environment or the care she needs and will not have her back with you. Then Social Services will do a financial assessment and assess her needs and find her a care home placement.

@ThejoyofNC

Unless op tells the hospital otherwise they automatically discharge home if needs can be met with more home visits (already offered) op needs to be looking for alternatives, that discharge can be late evening with no notice too. Don't think the council or nhs will search for a care bed, they don't, you have to find somewhere and the council or nhs funds if the needs assessment says she needs residential care. Been through this twice

no you do not have to find somewhere yourself. Yes you do have to tell the hospital that you refuse, of course you do, You may have been told that you had to find the place yourself but its not true.

No. Unless you have joint finances with the person in question, your funds are no-one else’s concern.

@mitogoshigg that’s scare mongering. They won’t send her home without any communication, agreement and plans made.

OP ask the ward for a social worker and have it noted you will not under any circumstances accept your mother home. The social worker will assist in finding a placement.

not a spouse either, they can onlt be assessed on their own assets. Joint assets are treated as shared equally.https://www.ageuk.org.uk/siteassets/documents/factsheets/fs39-paying-for-care-in-a-care-home-if-you-have-a-partner.pdf

I'd put it in writing to the hospital to make it absolutely clear she can't come back to you. They will try hard to get her back to you, but if she becomes a bed blocker in the hospital they will eventually put their energy into finding her a home. It's brutal. I am sorry.

Can relatives who could afford care home fees but don’t want to pay, because their money is for their own retirement, be forced to pay?

No. They can only force you to use your own assets for your care home fees, they can’t force anyone else to pay. However, if you gave away your assets (eg house) to try and avoid paying they could still go after that even if your children now live in it.

If you entered into a private contract with a nursing home and told them you would pay your mother’s fees then that would be different - the nursing home would have a contract with you and could pursue that (though in that situation you could give notice for your mum to leave and then phone up the council to let them know they have to care for her from that date).

OP I have nothing to add to the advice you've already been given. But I just wanted to say that I think you and your DH are saints. To house, care for and financially support a very elderly lady for 12 years is amazing. I hope you get the rest from it all that you so much deserve.

This! They will try to pressure you. Be firm, and clear. Don't let me emotionally blackmail you.

Yes - assessments will need to be done, both financial and level of care required.

Would recommend you contact an organisation such as Age UK who can talk you through and assist with the process.

That's terrible..what the hell were they thinking of..

Yes. But she will need to be assessed for residential care needs. I agree with not accepting her back home.

We have started to go down this road with my elderly DM and i will be recording every interaction like this because of disgusting comments like that one.

Op you are getting lots of advice. I would make the position clear urgently - an elderly relative was unsafely sent home in an ambulance without carers being arranged or family informed and it took an almighty fuss to get them to take them back. They only did because they didn’t have keys and could hardly leave them outside an empty house.

I would set it out in writing and get copies to the ward, discharge coordinators, social workers etc - that you cannot and will not be able to take her back, that this is your considered and final position which you expect to be respected. I would make clear in that your house is rented and she is not a tenant ie has no rights to be in your home. I know this is hard to do but even if she only had mild or no care needs you would be able to refuse to have her back as she has no right to be there.

When the discharge coordinators/Ot/whomever starts talking about HOW they can make it work at your home (more carers, adaptations, referrals, respite etc) don’t even entertain it. Shut it down immediately - “as I have already explained she will not be returning to my home, a residential place has to be found for her to be safely discharged. This is not an option, please do not suggest it again”.

Absolutely don’t agree for to anything that involves her coming to you, even if allegedly very short term. You must absolutely hold the line on this. I would also make clear to your DM what you are doing, that you simply cannot have her back as it would be completely unsafe.

Yes of course. Put it in writing to them now that you don't feel it is safe to have her home, that you don't have the capacity to do any care, and that you will not be entering into any further discussions on the matter.

As others have said, they will try and guilt you into taking her home, but you have to stand firm. The council will pay a decent amount towards her care. I am sure it varies, but my grandma (who is in a care home in London) gets around £4K a month from her council (her home costs considerably more, which is being paid for by her children and is causing a lot of family rifts). You've done more than enough and now it's time to hand over to the professionals.

No, they cannot.

OP has no financial obligation for her mother’s care unless the mother can be proved to have deprived herself of assets by giving her money to OP. OP has made it very clear this is not the case.

Honestly Op if she falls often & you can't lift her alone-which of course you shouldn't do anyway, it should always be two people-that's "reason" enough isn't it?

You can't meet her needs.

Plus if you work 10/12 hrs a day that is 10/12 hrs that she is effectively alone.

You are wfh yes & might be able to do say breakfast/ an easy lunch when you do yours.

But what you cannot do is reliably be there immediately if she falls/needs help with something.

I remember when my dad had had a fall & wasn't fit to go home alone, it was met with astonishment that neither myself nor my sister could/would move in!

Yes, they are not very nice about carers having any needs of their own.

However, your mother’s needs are now such that you are unable to meet them and so it is not best for her to be with you.

And stand firm. They will have to assess her needs and meet them.

Relatives don't need to pay for care home fees.

you love your mum, they know that and will play dirty guilt tricks to make you take her into your home. You need to be firm, and if necessary do not answer the phone from the hospital or SS. They stand to make a huge saving of around 6k a month if they can get you to have her with you. It’s all about the finances for them! But you have done your best for mum and now they need to provide the care she needs and deserves at 97!

They will use guilt and manipulation. A good word to use is crisis- eg you are at crisis point and cannot go on.

Plus she needs 24 hour care which you cannot provide as you work.