Can I refuse to have my mother stay with me?

[Wheatlands]

My mother, aged 97, is currently in a high care unit that she was sent to after spending three weeks in hospital with pneumonia. When my husband called yesterday to ask about the plan for mum, the nurse said they are still giving her antibiotics, and she is having 'mobilisation therapy' and then they will be looking into her discharge. From what the nurse says, they intend to discharge her back to us, but with more carer visits. Before she went into hospital she had one carer visit a day.
Both my husband and I work fulltime. I work from home, but for 10 to 12 hours a day teaching English online and I risk my work if I have to leave a meeting to care for mum.
We have cared for her for 12 years, with her progressively needing more and more care. She falls often and I can't lift her on my own. She is incontinent and even with the nappies, needs a lot of cleaning. She needs attention during the night.
We are both completely exhausted - I have been battling a viral chest infection since before Christmas. I feel completely terrified. I don't want her to come back because we just can't cope any more. There is no other family help available.

Do I have the right to refuse to have her back?

I would say to this assessor: I beg you a pardon?

You just have to get used to the fact that your inheritance is zilch.

We've always thought there'd be around 200k, cash each between 5 kids. but in the event it's all been spent, and we (5 siblings and partners) are funding his care, so we're worse off, not better off.
When he agrees to go into a nursing home his house will be sold to pay for it.
So. . . .at the end of it there will be nothing left of his million pound assets.
Absolutely nothing at all for any of us.

I know its mildly annoying initially. But just having a life free of worry and financial spreadsheets, and general pissing about answering the phone at silly o clock from the alarm company because he's pressed his emergency alarm because he can't find his hearing aids or wants a cup of tea or he thinks the cat is ill or needs feeding, or he wonders what time it is, or thinks the radiators are a quite hot, and nothing less than the fire brigade will assuage his worry.

Poor man. His family are not doing him any favours allowing him to stay in his house. It's unsustainable.

What?? She already , quite early on, said her dh and her are funding her mum who does not own a house. There’s no inheritance , this is not what it’s about, she’s accepted that for herself long before you managed to get your head around it for yourself, and this comment is really nasty. There’s a woman who’s been making herself sick looking after her 94 year old mum and needs to work out other options while the health care staff tell her she doesn’t matter at all and you want to make up that she’s greedy.

@EntropyCentral i read that as a comment aimed at the op, but it looks like another conversation going on. Sorry.

@EntropyCentral I feel for you -if however he had a million in assets and£200k ready cash that he got through - doesn't that mean his house must be around £750k? That's quite a lot of residential care payments for many years factoring in his interest and income too and you say he is 93? You may all well still inherit but just not as much I would think - can social services not force the situation if you all want this and he can't cope? Do any of you have POA because if so I personally I would be looking at drawing down £150k on the house on a lifetime mortgage and getting in a live in carer if he refuses a nursing home. He's being hugely unfair to you all expecting to subsidise him and do a lot if care too- especially given your personal situation- I wouldn't feel very kindly towards him if I'm honest. He has assets for their to be better solutions- he might actually enjoy a good residential home too- I know a 96 year old lady who was reluctant but eventually went somewhere really nice ( big room with en suite etc) and she really liked it -

Do any of you have POA because if so I personally I would be looking at drawing down £150k on the house on a lifetime mortgage and getting in a live in carer if he refuses a nursing home. He's being hugely unfair to you all expecting to subsidise him and do a lot if care too- especially given your personal situation- I wouldn't feel very kindly towards him if I'm honest. He has assets for their to be better solutions- he might actually enjoy a good residential home too- I know a 96 year old lady who was reluctant but eventually went somewhere really nice ( big room with en suite etc) and she really liked it

He is my fil so not 'blood' family so I don't have any say at all. There are 5 children, two with POA one of which is my dh. His take is sell the house and get fil a nice place to live. The others don't all agree. Two don't want to threaten the
house inheritance. The other doesn't care either way and doesn't offer any practical support (He can't. He's too far away.) So there are two who want
to just sell the house and get fil settled somewhere. Two who don't want that because selling the house would mean they inherit less (if at all), and the youngest is the baby so leaves it all to the older siblings. You should read the
family WhatsApp. Half of them maximising the caring issues, the siblings who want to hang onto the house minimising them. It's all a right old mess.

DH is the eldest and will eventually have the last say in the matter.
He's just working his way up to it really. With a little bit of nudging from me.
But he wants to do it nicely, with persuasion rather than force.

Coming in on the end of this but ‘hanging on to the house’ is a stupid idea. When he dies it will be sold anyway, and if it’s not been maintained properly over a few years, may be sold for less than you’d get now.

when my mother went into a care home (took some persuasion but she loved it once there) we sold her house and put the money into an investment fund. The profits from that combined with her pension income paid the care home fees while preserving her capital.

@EntropyCentral I would honestly think about and discuss my suggestion of drawing down and live in care- to be honest it won't cost far less than residential home factoring in bills etc but may feel more palatable to FIL- I would ignore those who don't want any 'drawing down on house'- unless they are 100% prepared to do the care or move in- it might create friction but stuff em- in fact I would draw down and then suggest your FIL has a couple of weeks respite care in a really good place and see how he feels-he may realise it's a great option and the idea is worse than the reality -if he totally hates it then look at the live in option

@EntropyCentral just to mention by the way there are different lifetime mortgage schemes and with plenty of them there is the option these days to draw down in tranches so you are only paying interest in what you have drawn down- others will set you almost like a 'credit limit' so you don't have to keep going back - at his age it's usually about 55% of value. I would also be paying you all back what you have put in so far-that's not ok when he's sat on an asset. Honestly lovely this can't go on and the greedy buggers need to accept that

Thank you everyone for all your encouragement and advice. You gave me the courage to be very firm and clear when the social worker called me today.
She is going to refer to social services, but she agreed that mum cannot come back here, and was so encouraging and kind.

thank you!

well done!

Also, the homes that the council will pay for are much lower quality than self funded ones.

Not in my experience. The best care can be found in council funded homes, fancy rooms, activities that most if the residents can't join, food that most can't eat does not make a high quality home.

In my long experience as a GP visiting both types of homes I would very much disagree.

I'm so glad the social worker was kind and listened to you.

oh I’m so pleased and a wait off your mind

I am a retired social worker and a large part of my career was spent finding residential and nursing home places for people - either elderly or brain injured. And my recent experience is in looking for a nursing home for my late OH.

At one time when I was working the vast majority of homes were council owned and led, and they were good homes with properly trained, paid and supported staff. Then dear Thatcher arrived and they finished up privately owned with poor pay, training, regulation and support - hence we have the current mess.

There are some excellent homes around but it does seem to be now that those charging the higher fees are better quality. The LA have a fee ceiling over which they will not pay and many homes simply do not accept LA funded residents because of this. So in essence LA funded residents are likely to get poorer care in homes that do accept this fee and therefore have less money to work with. Relatives are asked to "top up" but most do not.

However it is worth saying that sometimes I found that residents were happier in the "scruffier" homes with happier atmospheres. It is very individual and staff and leadership dependent. The ethos comes from the top and if this is right the home is good.

But I visited one nursing home for my OH and was reduced to a weeping heap in the car park - there was no way my erudite, witty, musical OH was going into that hell hole. I finished up having to sell our home to pay for the vast "top up" needed to get good quality care.

The OP needs to visit all the homes proposed by the social worker and have a list of questions to ask. It is also worth saying that very often there is a gut feeling that a home is right for your loved-one and this cannot be measured in any way. This is why you need to see them. There will be compromises to make as no home will be perfect for her needs.

Well done! Sending best wishes to you and your mum.

Very well done, OP; I don't imagine for an instant that this will be the end of it as far as pressure's concerned, with "Could you justs ..." and "It's only until ..." but at least you've now laid down the principle and it'll get easier to refuse each new "suggestion"

I was only thinking of you yesterday and the awful stress you must be under.

All the best.

However it is worth saying that sometimes I found that residents were happier in the "scruffier" homes with happier atmospheres. It is very individual and staff and leadership dependent. The ethos comes from the top and if this is right the home is good.

MIL had to go into a nursing home. The first home she was in looked scruffy from the outside, the paintwork was tired and it seemed dark. The staff were absolutely amazing though, they were kind, attentive and genuinely cared. The owner would fight tooth and nail for her residents and also looked after her staff. She threatened to ban BIL due to his attitude. Sadly MIL had to move as the home closed due to the owners ill health and she never settled in the new home and died a couple of months later. There was nothing wrong with the home or staff, it just didn't have the homely feel of the first one.

He is my fil so not 'blood' family so I don't have any say at all

Quelle surprise! You see exactly the same attitude towards step parents on here Nothing to do with you and not your business but you have to do the drudge work

Glad you have some good news OP. Just remember pp advice to stay firm. Best of luck xxx

Well done OP.

Not the case in my experience.