DH doesn’t want to care for his elderly relatives

[NotSayingImBatman]

Just that really. DH’s dad and auntie live 1.5 hours from us. His sister used to live around the corner from both of them but buggered off to Australia when she no longer needed the free childcare they provided for her.

Both relatives are getting on in years now and both have had falls/health issues/periods of confusion. When this happens, neighbours call DH constantly telling him they’re unwell and asking him to go and check on them. DH and I both have stressful, full time jobs and a disabled child of our own to take care of, so can’t just take 5+ hours out of our day to go and check on them. He calls them regularly, arranges shopping deliveries etc, so he’s not doing nothing at all, but he gets so angry and resentful whenever he gets one of these phone calls.

What do I do? I feel guilty leaving them to their own devices, and if they lived closer we’d both be more than happy to help them out more. Do I just quietly support DH’s decision to let them get on with it? Do I drive over there myself and take on their care on my own? I do love my in laws, but Christ this is difficult.

The anger that DH is feeling, the stress that will cause him will impact his own health and so have a knock-on effect on your family too OP.

In his shoes, as well as speaking to his Dad and Aunt about their plans for their futures now they're at a stage of needing regular help, I'd also be telling the neighbours what you've said here.

"I'm 1.5 hours drive away. I work full-time and have a disabled child to look after. I can't come. I can't do anything right now, I'm changing a nappy/cooking dinner/at work. No, my wife can't come either, she's busy doing essential things too. If Dad or Aunt are unable to book a GP appointment and take a taxi to the surgery to discuss their problem, then it sounds like an emergency so please can you call an ambulance. I'll give Dad/Aunt a call tomorrow to see how they're doing. Thanks for helping. Bye".

It will flag up to authorities that these people have no help. It will also stop neighbours calling because they know DH won't accept the baton they're trying to pass him. If it's paramedics picking them up off the floor and not taking them to hospital but asking "is there anyone we can call" and they're saying "my son/nephew helps me", DH response above will say loud and clear to everyone that the help he currently provides can't be added to in this way.

Everyone is trying to turn him into their carer and they'll keep doing it because he's not refusing. He needs to refuse in the moment when carer-type things are being asked of him, every time. He also needs to switch off his phone or put it on airplane mode at night. Anyone who is physically and mentally capable of calling him, including his Dad/Aunt, is also capable of calling an ambulance instead. I know the ambulance service is shite at the moment, but he doesn't even live close by so isn't going to be quicker to get them to hospital than an ambulance would. He doesn't need to be available 24/7.

If they get a falls alarm it needs to go to a service that will do more than just call DH. Or it won't solve anything.

One obvious thing. Can Dad and Aunt not live together to help each other out? If they're the types to not want outside help or to move to a care home. It could keep them independent for longer and free up cash from the sale of one house to be spent on help/care services. It could be done legally so they both co-own whichever house they live in and both have 50% of the equity of the one that's sold. Assuming both houses worth similar amount, then neither would be losing out and both could still leave their share to whoever they liked upon death (if there's anything left to leave).

You can't blame your SIL for living her life. She doesn't owe them elderly care just because they provided childcare. I'm sure she didn't ask them for help whilst promising that then reneging on the deal.

It's coming to us all, with retirement age creeping ever upwards, people moving away from their home towns, people having smaller families and working longer hours. Most of us are going to end up in the Dad and Aunt's situation of managing alone at home as best we can for as long as we can, then utilising whatever inadequate measures social services put in place until we end up in a care home/die (whichever happens first). It's not a pleasant thought but it is reality.

@godmum56 whilst I agree with putting in boundaries as a neighbour or a child of an elderly person, it's very difficult when you know that by not popping in on a neighbour, they could be lying in the hall in their own faeces, slowly dying because they fell and broke their hip, as was the case with my neighbour.

There were also times when he would wait for me to return home from work and ask simple things like to help him find his glasses, as he couldn't see well enough to find them, but also needed to have them to safely walk around his home (frail as he was).

I would have been heartless to say no and potentially endanger him, but his family at the end of the phone would say no.

Had they set him up with a daily carer &/or other support, which he could well afford, I as a neighbour could have held my boundaries, without endangering him.

But more importantly, he would have had the support he needed.

In short, buying in cleaners, food services and carers (where possible), or moving the elderly person to assisted living enables both children and neighbours to put boundaries in place whilst not risking lives.

the answer is 999 and social services. Repeatedly.

I also think the neighbours, if young and fit, could have a key and check on them (obviously with their permission). Surely it is easier to check themselves rather than call you to check.

When the neighbours call OPs DH, they are saying "I don't want to deal with this shit" but with nicer words.

Phone call to OPs DH to say they bumped into Dad this morning and he was talking nonsense "seemed unwell" or saw Aunt walking past the window and she was bruised and limping "didn't seem in such good shape", takes 5min.

Sorting things out in your own home as if you're going out for the day (because that's what you might end up doing), including getting changed if you were in pyjamas eg so you're warm enough in an elderly persons unheated house (due to costs perhaps), entering said house and finding said person comatose on the floor and having to wait hours with them until an ambulance arrives - or even finding there's no problems and just getting waylaid by a lengthy chat because they're lonely, "oh and while you're here can you just [insert xyz task that'll be made out to take 2mins but will actually take half hour]" - takes hours of the neighbours time on possibly a weekly basis.

It also leads to talk of "my neighbour helps me" when medical staff, or well meaning members of the public who've helped them out of a pickle, asks "is there anyone I can call for you" and leads to neighbours being pushed into the carer role, which they're obviously keen to avoid.

@FloralCrown n are you sure that family didn't want to arrange carers? Maybe they were refusing to come to try and get their relative to accept carers - it's very common for people (like my mother) to insist they are managing fine and don't need carers/cleaner/gardener when they really, really do and unless you step back and let the crisis happen you get nowhere apart from run ragged.

@EmeraldRoulette

They can call an ambulance or doctor. It doesn't have to be OP's DH.

Yeah the stubborn inbetween is awful. OP they need carers visiting

That's why I said we need to know more. Are these situations where a doctor or ambulance is needed etc.

also, it's not right the neighbour has to decide if it warrants that call.

even if a carer was there, many situations involve calling next of kin. It's a nightmare.

if I could turn back time, I'd have been less involved from the start.

What were the dad and auntie's plans for coping as they aged?
This is what we save for all our lives. To buy in help and care as needed and leave our busy adult DC with jobs and families of their own free of the burden of indefinite care in the prime of their life.
I wouldn't do it either. Everyone I've known take this on has ended up on antidepressants.

Going through all this with my DM at the moment. My dad died in October so she is on her own (for this week as my niece who usually lives there is on holiday abroad for a week) DM tried to guilt trip her into not going. She cries that shes on her own everyday despite shouting and moaning at my poor dad while he was suffering from prostate cancer. My DB has been round there every day He is being run ragged and has lost weight. On Boxing Day (the night before neice went on holiday) DM cut her leg in the greenhouse. The bleeding absolutely would not stop , DB dressed it while i called NHS 111 There was a queue so i called 999 Paramedics came out and wanted to take her to hospital as blood pressure was very high and in stroke/heart attack range. She refused to go. On Friday morning at 8am i went to her GP surgery to try to book an appointment Nope Cant do it while im actually standing there in front of them Have to go away and wait for a phone call. First phone call from them after this went to my mum who is deaf asking her why she had missed her 12pm appointment. After a phone call she got her blood pressure pills which were changed today after todays appointment.
Now we have another appointment this Thursday to change her bandages, so back to the surgery again. Im taking her this time as DB is back at work that day after having fuck all rest on his Christmas break, but i have to rely on taxis to pick me up and then pick her up as i dont drive.

I've got a care at home agency for my mum.
Started at 2 hrs each week, to help out with housework.
They will take her to appointments, into town for a coffee etc.
My plan is to step this up gradually.

People who are commenting that the OP is putting her head in the sand or not stepping up to the plate is disturbing. They have NO idea what it is like having calls at 0300. Mum has fallen again, or panic phone calls from parent about very little.

Yep - DH’s father lived on the south coast and we’re in the north east …

@countrygirl99 in my neighbour's case the family definitely didn't want carers, they wanted the inheritance 😞

I'd sorted a cleaner, that he was happy to pay for and did my best to sort carers, again that he wanted for both company and to improve his quality of life.

The family hadn't cut him off or anything, they just didn't want to spend time/energy visiting/helping/ sorting out help for him, despite two being retired with grown children.

They had "no time" to visit him in hospital on his death bed, but the day after he died they came down and cleared everything of value out of the house - they had time for that 🙄

It's just so difficult when it's happening on your doorstep to turn your back on someone who needs help, which is why I imagine, the neighbours are phoning.

However, I also know how hard it can be for estranged family, or for elderly people who deny they need help and don't want to derail this thread

I'd tell the neighbours to call an ambulance. In a nice way, 'it's so kind if you to keep an eye out. I can't be there today, do call.an ambulance.' Then one of 3 things will happen

1. They won't call an ambulance and nothing will happen. 2. They won't call an ambulance and there will be some sort of health crisis. 3. They will call an ambulance, there either will or won't be a hospital admission, and eventually some sort of care package or more appropriate help could happen.

I would have a couple of backups if his dad and aunt will agree - a keysafe, and either pendant alarms or some sort of checkin system like an Alexa so he can find out if they really are lying on the floor with a broken hip or not. All with their agreement.

What I don't think should happen is either him having to drive hours every time the neighbours are worried, or the neighbours having to do the caring.

We were in this position with MIL although we lived much further away so wasn't possible to just pop in & visit. As others have said getting an assessment of needs done would be sensible. MIL wasn't entitled to any care from SS. Best thing we did was getting in a private care Co- we used Home Instead but there are others. Started off with just 1 visit a day twice a week, for a cuppa & chat & picking up a bit of shopping. Over the years it gradually stepped up to 4 visits a day for full care, making meals, washing etc, cleaning, shopping, giving medication & if they found her unwell a separate team of more trained nursing staff went in x1 day. It was honestly such a stress reliever for DH knowing that they could pretty much deal with any situation, including many trips to hospital in last Yr. She managed to stay at home which was her wish, until just 9 months before she passed away & when a final hospiral stay during covid meant she wasnt able to go home.( She didn't want to move closer to us which was offered at an early stage) Even at this level of care it was cheaper than going into a care home.
DH did visit regularly over many years but as you say with a family of your own & distance wise it's not easy.
Edited to add - we did have a key safe & alarm system as well as adaptations DH put in place after an OT assessment following a hospital stay.

Isn’t it sad that so many people in this country think they have no responsibility towards elderly relatives and think that it is up to the state to provide and fund any support needed?
Whatever happened to “Honour thy father and thy mother that you may live long in the land the Lord has given you.” ?
There’s a promise there as well as an obligation.

But the father and the aunt haven't actually asked for additional help! There's a difference between not honouring people and driving hours several times a week because a neighbour has decided there's a problem.

You should see the weight that DB has lost since Dad died He died on 6th OCTOBER and DB has been round there every day since. But im sure we will be comforted by the fact that some fucking internet random thought he was a worthy son should he have a stroke or a heart attack due to the stress

DM is the one who emotionally abused my dad saying it was an STI and not prostate cancer when he was diagnosed. You have no fucking idea what goes on behind closed doors from your picture perfect picket fence attitude!!!

I agree to some extent but in my case I've chosen to help my relatives by sorting out professional care help so they can continue to live independently. I also share part of the costs as this can be expensive and I'd rather pay £250 per month than be a part time carer myself.

If DH had spent the 7-8 years, that his father needed care, running up and down the country, he would have no job and our family would have no home.

It's a really hard situation, and we should all be really angry about the state of care services in this country (but we're too knackered to march on Whitehall, so just snip at each other instead). A pp poster referred to 'help services' but very often they're simply not there.

I've never cared for an elderly parent (I'm 60 and my gran is still living independently!) but I have spent some years caring for my ex, who developed Alzheimers at 50. It's been tough. There's a real lack of support for younger people with dementia - most care homes are a minimum age, and it took forever to find one that would take her. When she was in hospital they wouldn't let our dd visit because she's a minor. And her siblings, who have LPA, live abroad and do FA. So everyone rings me but I have no legal authority - all responsibility and no power.

OP, you shouldn't sign up to anything you can't reasonably do (and you need to be VERY clear to social care that you will NOT be providing caring services). But your dh does need to be part of the planning committee, I think. (If only to provide a clear picture of what he can and can't do.) I would start with the Age Concern website/helpline, then ask Adult Social Care to do a needs assessment.

It's a little difficult to provide practical care for elderly relatives at a distance (their choice) when you work full time to pay the mortgage and have children at primary school.

@GrannyRose15 I come from three generations of atheists. There's no 'promise' there.

Whether there’s a promise or not, most of us need to work to pay the bills.

This.
there are two issues to address. First, the immediate priority is why the hell are the neighbours involved? Ok, if a one off emergency fair do, but repeatedly? This isn’t fair on neighbours. Whoever is burdening them with it. It has to stop. If it is dad or auntie contacting them they have to be told to stop. They call ambulance or out of hours, or your dh. That’s it. If neighbours are involving themselves, they need a quiet but strong word to say that it is not an option for dh to care full time, and his dad and aunt need to come to terms with this and arrange appropriate care support . The neighbours are enabling unsafe behaviours that are preventing the vulnerable older relatives to take responsisiblty to get their act togther. Say it has to stop.

then secondly, a care assessment for both. Be clear that neither you not dh can support , you are already carers and have full time jobs and live away. Their needs need to be assessed professionally and ensure that they have access to any funding they’re entitled too. If they’re not entitled to funding, then they must be forced to understand they have to spend their own money now on care support . That means a bit of tough love. And some very straight talking.

while you’re at it, get LPOA done now. Urgently. For both of them. Don’t wait till it is too late.

dont be guilt tripped into carer roles. The shit people come out with who never been in that situation is powerful but irrelevant. Unless and until you’ve cared for someone 24/7/365 or even been on call 24/7 you’ve no right to presume what you’d be able to do in similar situation. Caring for someone , especially a relative, is one of the most difficult things…it changes previous relationships fundamentally, it alters the very dynamics. In some lovely rare cases it can work, but mostly it can lead to stress, mental I’ll health on part of carer (statistics are very bad if you look them up), or even, resentment . You have to be a very spepcifc type of person to do that , and one that has the time and lack of any other responsibilities.

as we get older, and I’m mid 60s, and find ourselves living on our own, we need to take accountability to have frank conversations with our children, review what we want and make some outline plans. And ensure we have, where possible, funding set aside. Too often older people bury their heads in the sand, feigning immortality to avoid taking difficult and frightening decisions related to becoming less independent. But the cold reality is we all must do it sometime.