Appalling behaviour-dressed up as old age-it has to be addressed

[BlueLegume]

Hi all, having followed and contributed to several threads on ‘Elderly Parents’ I want to thank so many of you for helping me look at my/our situation. I won’t name check you just yet but you know who you are. This thread is not to be unpleasant about the elderly who are having a hard time. It is to address a very honest point that my parents have always been difficult. Impossible to discuss anything important with, always known better and having watched them alienate good decent people I am angry that they made no effort in life to do anything other than fun stuff for themselves and now expect me and my siblings to pick up their mess. It seems so many middle aged people have fallen foul of these ‘war babies’ as my mother still refers to her and Dad. Yes I accept they were born at the end of the war and they will have had to live in a post war country. For our mother that is all she talks about. She doesn’t accept they had the boom years post war which she has photo evidence of living it large in the 50s and 60s. She was an incredibly authoritarian mother yet after a few drinks would party all night. Always a case of do as I say not as I do. Now as I approach 60 I am wracked with worry and anxiety because she now ‘can’t cope’. It’s ruining life . I have all the therapy theories and have shared much of it. That said I am mad at the fact I am still dictated to or it feels so by her. Father is in a nursing home after a lot of denial that was what he needed. She will not have any help in the house so it is all falling to us. We are broken. My own family are fed up and rightly so. Selfish as it sounds I did not retire to look after a very unpleasant woman who has never liked me. I appreciate that sounds very bitter.

It doesn't sound selfish. It sounds like a woman totally fed up. I hear you abd totally sympathise, I've got a dad whose glass is never half full, who thinks he's so hard up and hard done by despite having £500 income a month he "doesn't know what to do with" on top of all his investments and house. Everything is negative.
im sorry you're in such a crap situation abd this board is great fir a judgement free vent xx

Thanks @StiffyByngsDogBartholomew I know how many of us this is affecting. It’s just miserable. Our mother simply fabricates her past for sympathy.

I work Manding care services for older people. Friends not in the field look at me aghast when I say that a good proportion of them are not the 'sweet old ladies' they imagine. (Lots are of course).

My advice to you is to stop letting this dictate your life. Lose the guilt if your parents are and have been unpleasant towards you throughout your life. There are services out there that will help. Commission these and step back. As with all things in life, It's later than you think. I see the children of horrible parents running themselves ragged all the time. They almost never receive any thanks for it.

*managing care services.

OP this sounds really hard to live with. Can you find your way to realising you don't have to? Other people's expectations don't have the power to make you do things. It's you that is making you do these things, and you can stop.

If your mother won't have help, that is her choice as an adult. She cannot actually dictate anything to you. She has no power over you. All the power she has, you give her. You can stop giving her the reins. You don't need her permission or understanding to stop doing this, which is lucky because you will never, ever, get it.

It might sound impossible, madness, a dream, to say that you can just stop doing what she wants and you don't need her to agree to this, even, you can just stop. But it's also objectively true.

You don't have to "abandon your mother" or whatever other extreme version of this you bristling against as you read this. You can just start today by thinking in your head that you don't need her permission or agreement to live your life in a way that includes what you want and need.

You and your sibs decide together what you want to do. Tell her, with a written plan she can see. And do just that.

Maybe you could each visit once a week. One could shop, one could do the garden or whatever. Or take it in turns.

When she rings demanding x,y,z- Bill will be visiting tomorrow, he can help you then.

My situation is similar, but I’m avoiding retiring as work is a good excuse. What I would warn is that my sibs are in my opinion using mum’s unpleasantness as an excuse to ignore her. They really do very little- won’t be reliable or regular and hurt her feelings by having no consideration.

So have boundaries, look after yourself, protect your own family, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Your dc can pop in for the occasional ’duty visit’, without being damaged for life.

It doesn’t sound at all bitter, but you do know you are not obligated to do anything to look after anyone don't you?
My DM would be 87 if she were still alive, so was born in the early 1930s. As was my father. Both suffered immense trauma as children directly because of the war, both lived in poverty for much of their childhood. As did many of their contemporaries. Life was very tough for them - and having children in the 60s meant that at times they did ‘party hard’ when they got the rare opportunity.
By today’s standards, their parenting would be brought into question but it was generally the norm when I was a child. I know they did their best most of the time, but I know my DMs choices in later life once all her children became adults were dubious. I’m fortunate because she didn't need a great deal of support in her later years, but my stepfather is in a home and I chose to be his Deputy to help support his end of life years. I only visit once a month, do all his finances and make sure he has all he needs. That’s it. That’s all I can mentally and emotionally afford to give.
I would suggest that you seek counselling in order to work through your emotions about your DM because at the moment it’s negatively affecting your life. It’s OK to step back and put limits on the support you are willing to provide. You can’t take care of others properly if you don't take care of yourself first x

Really symptomatic.
One of parents was ill for years so very depressing going around there as other parent looking after them with social help. Always negative.
Parent left does nothing but moan when you speak to them. Never happy. So for last fifteen years my life as a person in forties to late middle age just been ruined with constant moaning. I hate it.
Can't say anything as they wouldn't talk to me again and it would be my fault.
Never sees good in anything and phone calls are so stressful.
I have four children and one of them has severe mental health problems and tried to tell parent and another time a sibling but just don't really help me. I told sibling that one of my children had to be hospitalised in past because of depression. He actually tried to kill himself which I tried telling my parent but they don't want to know as got own struggles. They just listen but don't say anything.
My sibling sent a message saying we are here and all have our struggles. Didn't know my child had actually tried to kill self and lots of other things.
Just feel on own as oh doesn't like talking about it so it is always on my shoulders.
My mother in law is a waste of space. Was old in her fifties in attitude and now living with one of my oh families who are awful people and just after her house sale money but she loves people fussing around her. I am polite but me and oh can't stand her anymore.

Really simply remind her what a total B she always was, how you are traumatized for life by childhood and the umbilical cord was cut long ago. Be hostile - push back.

@violetmoons oh I am so sorry.

My parents are like this.

They act like they're hard up pensioners who can't afford anything while easily spending £300 (!!!) a week on food and drink - my mum will just order the same things every week without checking if they need them and just stores the spares in the cupboard.

They've just lost my dad's winter fuel payment, my mum is due a refund of the same amount as the payment but needs to travel 15 minutes to get it. Her attitude? "Oh I can't be bothered, it's too far to go for £300". Yet whenever the winter fuel payment is discussed she acts like they're going to starve this winter because of it.

They've spent £10k on holidays this year, they have every luxury imaginable. But they act like they're hard up? Then when you challenge them and say they're not, she says "oh so you begrudge us this? We worked hard and we get attacked for it?!", no mother I'm just acknowledging that you aren't actually a starving pensioner and don't need state benefits!

Look after yourself
My mother in law is a drip who was old in her fifties and always favoured one family over others. Really a pathetic person who I have no respect for anymore.

That clearly sounds awful and extreme, I clearly with moderate Parkinson’s could not help, I struggle to take care of myself at 62.
My ex in laws I helped in my 40s, I worked shifts and helped when I could, despite 3 sons nearby. A cleaner was employed and needed.
My parents died together 8 years ago, so am spared this.
No wonder you are fed up

Thanks
I'm really disliking mum in law at mo
I'm done

Solidarity. I have observed that unpleasant, selfish people do not become magically nice when they age. In fact, they can become even worse.
What my poor DH went through, caring for his father at end of life was appalling. He is now expected to replace him.
I hope my generation do better by their children, I really do.

" Never set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm".

It's nothing to do with when someone was born. Some people are optimistic, "can do" type of people and others never stop moaning and only think of themselves. Just because they are now older doesn't mean anyone else needs to put up with their bad behaviour, even their children or other relatives.

You don't need to feel obliged OP. Set your own boundaries and stick to them. You don't need to do caring duties that can be obtained in other ways. It's one thing to pay back kindness and consideration, but why should you when you don't get it?

Fundamentally people stay the same throughout life . Rough edges may be worn away or indeed softened up depending on who they’re with and what goes on. But unless someone has a dementia that can fundamentally impact personality, if they were a shit bag when they were young they’ll be a shit bag when they’re older. losing a partner can also be terrible as the one person that used to keep them in check and made them behave has gone. personally, I’m not sure I’d help your mother. Why do you? And I don’t ask that to be provocative.

I work Manding care services for older people. Friends not in the field look at me aghast when I say that a good proportion of them are not the 'sweet old ladies' they imagine. (Lots are of course)

Can concur with this. There are plenty of unpleasant, uncaring, negative and selfish older people just as there are younger people. However, everyone seems to believe that once you get to over 65 you instantly become a "lovely sweet older person" which is ridiculous. I never understand why people think this- living a long time doesnt automatically make someone sweet. Why on earth would it?

My sympathies OP, it can be very challenging.

Thanks so much for the responses. I have had therapy and probably should get some more to deal what the abyss I feel I am looking into. Sadly but right are the comments about people not changing so I know I am just dealing with an older version of a very unpleasant character. We have literally tried everything since we got Dad into the home but she simply refuses to listen to our suggestions about a cleaner - won’t have a stranger in the house; gardener - won’t be reliable; food delivery - they will know I live alone and come and burgle me. It is relentless. Yes to whoever said it is irrelevant when they were born - she just uses this war baby thing as an excuse. Incidentally she was born and grew up in an area children were evacuated TO! Neither of her parents was involved in active service and she was incredibly cosseted and spoilt as a child and subsequently by our Dad. She has alienated all other family and has absolutely no interest in our health or our lives. We have had her at a special doctor for older people as our brother kept telling family members and my sister and I that ‘she is ill’. Blood tests, memory tests you name it. Passed everything fine. As I have said she is just as she has always been. Mean spirited but now without our Dad to temper her vileness.

I work in care of the elderly and can confirm the sweet old lady myth is just that, they don’t exist. I see so many women in their 80s and 90s who expect their children to run around after them. They decline a care package on discharge because “my son/daughter will do it” without considering the son/daughter’s own life. Old men can be the same.

Obviously there are sweet old people around but the ones I see are mostly selfish and have the expectation that their children will care for them until the end. Thankfully we have a lot of multi disciplinary team meetings before discharge where the families can discuss what they really need to happen.

Look after yourself first and foremost OP.

Awful really, I miss my own previously good health, it’s not the fault of anyone !
I try to be kind

Sending patience to you

My parents were very similar to yours @violetmoons , incessantly moaning about everything and everyone until the day they each died. It got so bad that I wouldn’t visit them unless DH came too to deflect the nastiness and personal attacks. The last thing my mother said to me was ‘You’re fat’ fat’ which gives you some idea of how unpleasant she was (I have severe heart problems and was on steroids)
I didn’t grieve when they died within two months of each other, during lockdown.

@LissaGa thanks. Yes this is just what has happened. Even at a MDTM for our father our mother sat there saying stupid things like ‘ I think I will have him home and give it a go ‘ at a point when they were invoking a DoLs. She is not a natural nurse and actually I have spoken to her many times about how awful she speaks to my Dad, well did, and her appalling way of speaking to staff at the hospital in recent years but over her life her neighbours and people generally. She is such a know it all.