Appalling behaviour-dressed up as old age-it has to be addressed

[BlueLegume]

Hi all, having followed and contributed to several threads on ‘Elderly Parents’ I want to thank so many of you for helping me look at my/our situation. I won’t name check you just yet but you know who you are. This thread is not to be unpleasant about the elderly who are having a hard time. It is to address a very honest point that my parents have always been difficult. Impossible to discuss anything important with, always known better and having watched them alienate good decent people I am angry that they made no effort in life to do anything other than fun stuff for themselves and now expect me and my siblings to pick up their mess. It seems so many middle aged people have fallen foul of these ‘war babies’ as my mother still refers to her and Dad. Yes I accept they were born at the end of the war and they will have had to live in a post war country. For our mother that is all she talks about. She doesn’t accept they had the boom years post war which she has photo evidence of living it large in the 50s and 60s. She was an incredibly authoritarian mother yet after a few drinks would party all night. Always a case of do as I say not as I do. Now as I approach 60 I am wracked with worry and anxiety because she now ‘can’t cope’. It’s ruining life . I have all the therapy theories and have shared much of it. That said I am mad at the fact I am still dictated to or it feels so by her. Father is in a nursing home after a lot of denial that was what he needed. She will not have any help in the house so it is all falling to us. We are broken. My own family are fed up and rightly so. Selfish as it sounds I did not retire to look after a very unpleasant woman who has never liked me. I appreciate that sounds very bitter.

She can’t afford it (lost her company pension in the 90s plus other factors I'd rather not go into). She does have very little income and not entitled to a penny more. Plus, if I don't do it, she'll insist on doing it herself and that includes dangerous stuff. I once arrived and she was up a ladder with a chainsaw trying to cut down a very large tree. The curtains she def couldn't do herself but she's adamant she could!

Thanks for that. I have spoken to him about the FOG before and he's far more aware just how much he's been manipulated and controlled all his life. I've never played their games so I've always kept my distance and actually I think they respect me more than they do their son. They respect me (they'd never try the shout/cry technique on me) but don't like me, whereas they like my husband but don't respect him 🤷

Eh?

Yes I agree with this to some extent. Your mother sounds absolutely vile OP. She moans and complains while not actually doing anything to solve the issues, just moaning and complaining more. But you're repeating her issues. You are allowing her to manipulate you and instead of putting a stop to it and forcing her hand on getting help you're on here moaning and complaining about her. She can only manipulate you if you allow her to, you don't have to do any of this.

You are choosing to enable this behaviour.

Nothing useful to add here other than @BlueLegume I hear you! MiL was a bit like your mother but at least she did care about her GC, our DDs. She lied outrageously to Social Services that DH could do everything for her. DH was working on a secure site with no access to a mobile phone during the working day. He would leave work, drive an hour 15 to shop for her and make sandwiches and a hot drink and she just moaned all the time. Or he'd do that, finally get home, see our DC for 2 minutes and she would then phone up saying the TV was broken. We told her to ask the carers to check it and call me, but that wasn't good enough and someone would have to go back there. However, just before she died, she told DH what a wonderful son he had been and never given her a moment's trouble.

My DF is still with me and looks like he'll be here for the foreseeable. He is generally an optimist so although he moans about all his friends having died, he does find pleasure in small things - just now I took him a bowl of homemade soup and he was delighted. However, my sister ticks most of the boxes on the narc bingo card and that's the cause of much of my stress.

Oh wow - yes @Malbecfan! DH and I were both only children and unfortunately both (late) mothers had narcissistic traits, although mine was particularly extreme which I’ve detailed on the narcissistic mother thread.

DH isn’t in the best of health, and when he was diagnosed with cancer, the first thing MIL did was turn to me and say, “Well, I hope you know enough about my finances and house to take over” Clearly, she was more concerned about the potential of having to take responsibility for her issues than the health of her son. She also declined help from outside agencies and expected DH to do heavy physical maintenance work when she had the money to employ a qualified workman to do it - and would then criticise what he had done!

I often wonder whether it was worse being only children as you are expected to shoulder the burden alone, or having a sibling that is forever the golden child being to you being the kicking post.

@Molly546 thank you for your comments. I am on here ‘moaning and complaining’ because it is a safe space. I am aware some of what I/we have done enables her behaviour BUT there are times and have been times when clinical professionals have needed a sensible family member to discuss things with about our father’s next steps and our mother has refused to engage with them. The point of this thread is to be open about the fact not all elderly people are sweet and deserving of lots of support. You do not know me, my siblings or my mother. She continues to require support from us because she point blank refuses to listen to sensible ideas to make life easier. She simply expects us to rally.

@mm81736 why bother commenting. Scroll on by as I do if the post/thread doesn’t seem relevant to me. Unless of course you are our mother and it has hit a nerve.

I concur @MereDintofPandiculation .

Also, when a thread includes posters ridiculing people for reading Angela Raisin or using it as a political platform for their views on Remain/Brexit - well I find that arrogance and snobbery very distasteful.

re. support in general, I think Elderly Parents can be a good place for support and advice - but it’s worth remembering it’s a broad church and lots of people don’t understand the dynamics of toxic families / narcissism. Some are naive, some are wilfully naive and some use it as a projection for their own agenda and this disbelief and blaming can be unhelpful even re-traumatising.

What I have found more useful is :

• out of the fog website
• counselling or therapy or coaching to support you (ONKY IF the therapists are the right fit)
• ”The Royal We” YouTube many posts on how to effectively deal with narcissists. Example below; if that is any help to anyone I’m glad 💜 :

I was going to say young in the 1950s to 1970s - I read this as being young adults going into work, getting n housing ladder etc. at that time, rather than born 1950 -1970.
But it’s ambiguous..

Thank you @Boundariesboundariee that was me highlighting my parents homophobia, small minded views with their discussions on Brexit, however I didn't say whether they voted leave or remain, I thought it was a neutral post. However if you think racists were more likely to vote one way, I'd love to see the research.

I don't agree with my of that, they were Brexit voting, homophobic, racist, small minded

^your words @Septoctwed - I think it’s pretty clear what youre saying.

As I said, this is not the place for political rudeness - even though you are clearly baiting me / being passive aggressive by demanding “research” - for what I dont know - and I’m not entering into one. Over and out.

.

Thank you for some really understanding posts and words on this thread. This is a safe space for any poster, Elderly Parents thread or any other to air some views, share concerns. I started this thread due to a long and exhausting journey with very difficult parents massively impacting life, feelings, emotions and also to share that people do not always become sweet old people. They often become monster versions of their already difficult selves and as middle aged in my case daughter with also a lot of other issues on their plate we sometimes need to vent. Not interested in Brexit or Agatha Raisin, although I enjoyed the TV show - just the reality of day to day life.

@BlueLegume thankyou for creating this thread where we can safely vent about our difficult parents.

@Septoctwed you need to write a blog, you write hilariously. Also, drop the weekly duty phonecall, I did and survived. I used to do the duty Sunday call but during COVID I reached my limit with them moaning how they couldn't get their regular trip to Italy and Spain. Meanwhile my children were doing their exams in their bedroom and my medical treatment was stopped. I just stopped and now will once every six weeks or so ring and get talked at for half an hour. So much better than on a weekly basis being criticised and baited by my mother.

@BlueLegume my m is also in rude health, she is 85 with no health problems. I can see her living to 100. I often wonder if even after their death we will be free. I doubt it as my self esteem/worth were decimated by her as a child and adult. I am so damaged by her I doubt the scars will ever fade. Ps have had psychology etc.

Love to everyone in this thread xx

@Lexy70 🥰

I read it as young, ie children, so born 40s to 60s.

Whichever way, I fall into that group, and I certainly didn't dip my DC's dummy in whisky.

@MereDintofPandiculation @nutmeg7 the point of the thread wasn’t to bash a certain generation-apologies if that was not clear. My grandparents born in the early 1920s were an absolutely lovely upbeat couple. My parents not so. When they were born was stated early on in the thread to point out that the ‘backstory’ they have lived by is the ‘we grew up in post war austerity’. They never ever acknowledged that whilst that was factually correct they went onto have lots of opportunities during the 50s etc….which I very much recall my grandparents talking about fondly. The overriding point of the thread really was more about poor behaviour throughout their lives and the expectation I/we as a family have to accept the latest cliche/bingo ‘ I can’t cope’ from our mother . We have tried literally everything to make her life more manageable and she refuses to listen or engage. As I have said before she simply expects us 3 (middle aged) to ‘rally’….ie drop everything when she demands. She won’t/can’t/doesn’t hear anything sensible to help both her and us. She is oblivious to the fact we have all lived 35 plus years away from her and have our own lives. She chose to remain in a place she was born, she doesn’t and has never liked, in a totally unsuitable property. I think whenever she had been born her personality would have been the same. She was highly indulged and spoilt by her parents and subsequently expected to be by our DF…who did so to keep her from kicking off.

@BlueLegume No apologies needed from you! You and most of the posters have been very clear in that you’re sharing experiences of specific elderly people, without generalising to the whole generation. You’ve provided a valuable space for people to express their feelings. However, one poster used the thread to push her dislike of a particular generation, including the bizarre comment that we all dipped our babies’ dummies in whisky to get them to sleep.

@MereDintofPandiculation me too and I definitely didn't- although I did use Farleys rusks- which apparently are the devils work

I kinda agree - and disagree.

Some posters are DESPERATE to CHANGE things. They are at their WITS ends, truly. They are open to ideas and actions. They have NO support and are struggling so so much. They are so desperate for things to change for the better.

OTOH - my observation - some folk just want to complain and moan and they are stuck in the mire. They are not open to change when it comes down to it. In a way they are stuck in an energy-sucking self-pity (which is a static emotion, unlike pain which has a lot of energy) They absorb others’ empathy - and they give nothing back.

On MN I’ve noticed this distinction - perhaps in real life to some extent - over the years…. What I have found is the different is the energy levels transference.

None of this is directed at the OP btw - I absolutely promise. It’s really a general observation with posts I see on elderly parents and elsewhere on MN.

I am so sorry too. I can empathise with a lot of what you have gone through. It’s brutal.

Thanks for the opinions. My ‘complaining’ is much more nuanced and sits at the end of the spectrum where it is probably best described as desperation. Sixty years of trying to please or at least get a positive reaction in life generally from my mother. Since Dad went into nursing care, which was long overdue but our mother refused to accept-even though she was advised of this by Dad’s consultant- an incredibly good person - she has dug her heels in in life and been contrary about everything. Thing is this is not new behaviour, it is her personality. My whole existence around her has been that if she isn’t happy she will be obstinate, rude and willful, I will then give in and do what she wants and then everything is peachy again - for her. I have only tried to help as in suggesting a cleaner/home help, food delivery etc to MAKE LIFE EASIER- for her and for me and my siblings- if that is selfish then so be it. She has alienated every neighbour, her own sibling and their very lovely husband, friends, workmen etc etc with her rude, critical attitude. And now she is sad and lonely. The issue really is she pressed the self destruct button because she genuinely seemed to be unable to accept a terminal diagnosis for her very elderly husband. Rather than look into the help we have suggested, talking therapy engaging with a local help group for the illness - she knew better - or rather she buried her head in the sand. I have not had the luxury of doing that because of the life admin and worry around trying to sort my Dad out and manage her who has become selectively competent about things she will and won’t do - washing cleaning shopping etc. I am simply drained and at my wits end as to how this will play out. My own life has had to change irrevocably to accommodate her unwillingness to accept any external help. Put simply she doesn’t care as long as she is controlling the narrative and being frankly quite scary - reminds me of being a child again in her presence never quite knowing what she will do or say so always being on my guard. It’s not a nice way to feel.

@BlueLegume I cared for both parents and even though there were difficulties, particularly in the end, I knew they were both very ill. I also know they were very grateful.
When I met my DP his sister was doing most of the caring for their DM. I was surprised my DP didn’t do more as he is a lovely man.
When I saw how this lady treated her own daughter I was shocked. Even a loaf of bread was the wrong brand. Every single thing was wrong. She lived an hour’s drive away, and as soon as his sister got home, her DM would call her to come back, and she did.
DP did some basics particularly when his sister needed a break.
I went one day with him. He made her some lunch while I did some basics around the house. As were leaving he went in and gave her a tray. As we got to the door she shouted he’d made the sandwich wrong.
He then shouted to her…
’Well you are more than capable of making it yourself. If you don’t like it make yourself another F-ing sandwich!’
I nearly fell over in shock as he doesn’t swear often.
We left and I felt really shaken.
What I did learn over time is that this woman had been an awful wife and mother. Her children were traumatised by her behaviour. But my DP would not be ruled by her.
She rang around the family - her son was abusive, he’d left her without food. DP did not shift. He did his duty when he could, but he never bowed down to her and would not take her criticism.
His sister wore herself down. By the time their DM died she was like a shell and it’s taken her years to get over it.
I see so many friends going through what you are and it breaks my heart. Very rarely there is parent who is no bother. Sometimes you get someone who gets cranky and irritable - fine. But this level of control is damaging.
You were not put on this earth to be anybody’s servant.
A lot of people who have no children nearby or who have never had kids have to cope.
Your DM would have to.
I know it’s really, really tough but you deserve your own life.

This in spades.

@PeggyMitchellsCameo @AskingQuestions45 Thank you. Again every point in your example I nodded to as it has happened in various forms. Thank you.