Appalling behaviour-dressed up as old age-it has to be addressed

[BlueLegume]

Hi all, having followed and contributed to several threads on ‘Elderly Parents’ I want to thank so many of you for helping me look at my/our situation. I won’t name check you just yet but you know who you are. This thread is not to be unpleasant about the elderly who are having a hard time. It is to address a very honest point that my parents have always been difficult. Impossible to discuss anything important with, always known better and having watched them alienate good decent people I am angry that they made no effort in life to do anything other than fun stuff for themselves and now expect me and my siblings to pick up their mess. It seems so many middle aged people have fallen foul of these ‘war babies’ as my mother still refers to her and Dad. Yes I accept they were born at the end of the war and they will have had to live in a post war country. For our mother that is all she talks about. She doesn’t accept they had the boom years post war which she has photo evidence of living it large in the 50s and 60s. She was an incredibly authoritarian mother yet after a few drinks would party all night. Always a case of do as I say not as I do. Now as I approach 60 I am wracked with worry and anxiety because she now ‘can’t cope’. It’s ruining life . I have all the therapy theories and have shared much of it. That said I am mad at the fact I am still dictated to or it feels so by her. Father is in a nursing home after a lot of denial that was what he needed. She will not have any help in the house so it is all falling to us. We are broken. My own family are fed up and rightly so. Selfish as it sounds I did not retire to look after a very unpleasant woman who has never liked me. I appreciate that sounds very bitter.

Like others have said you and your sister need to agree together why you can do then tell your mum that is it. It is up to her to get help to cover the rest.
We have done similar with my in-laws. Dh has always had a really difficult relationship with them both, (he’s been in therapy for over 10 years, all stemming from childhood) and I’ve helped him set boundaries. We will do so much but that’s it, they choose to live miles away, they choose to live in a large property which they cannot manage, and it is not up to us to support them in their choices if it means we will be run ragged.
An example is their driving. FIL can no longer drive and MIL has bad eyesight. We’ve been saying for several years there will come a time when they cannot drive but they’ve refused to move from their rural house and call on us to take them to hospital appointments etc. we told them recenty that we couldn’t do it anymore and they need to use taxis. Well after a month of doing this they’ve now decided they need to move! hallelujah! Our only regret is not saying years ago that they must use taxis.

😪 very unkind, esp as you had your own issues health wise

@Zippedydodah I am so sorry and I can sympathise with the ‘you’re fat’ comments. Both my parents said this to me and about other people over many years. For them being anything other than slim showed poor discipline.They lived on steamed fish and vegetables, no sugar or carbs ever. Yes they were beautiful but they also had two daughters who sailed incredibly close to eating disorders just so we ‘didn’t embarrass them’. @LizzieSiddal it’s too late for our mother to move sadly. The bonus is she is near the home our father is in. They ‘pretended’ to want to move to a more suitable place a few years back but they found fault in everything we found for them. Yes they left that search to us. We even offered to buy them somewhere project manage it to make it perfect and then let them pay us back once they sold their place. Buried their heads in the sand frankly with a shrug of the shoulders and ‘ we will never be a burden’. They are the single biggest problem and worry I have ever had. Boundaries are great and I can set them but once I have to speak to her or listen to the myriad of complaints I feel so anxious.

I think I am lucky in this regard. I don't dislike my parents but my mother is a pathological liar and my father's politics is completely unpalatable to me. I can take them in small doses. They live in a country thousands of miles away and I provide significant financial support but don't have to see them more than once every couple of years. I feel no guilt and I don't get annoyed with them.

@emilysquest I like your point about not getting annoyed with them. I will take that on as I think I probably have got annoyed as they were and my mother continues to be impossibly difficult. She even knows she does it and says ‘I can’t help it’. Getting annoyed is doing nothing to help myself so I will take that as a good piece of advice. Thank you

Children of tyrannical parents can feel fear, obligation and guilt. The little you wants to please them and not get in trouble. But now you sail your own ship. You can have as much or as little contact as you like, and you can set your limits wherever you want to and you don't have to explain or apologise to anyone. Be a good parent to yourself and look after your worries without fear, obligation or guilt. It's hard because you feel young and powerless. You are not though, you are just great.

@Runskiyoga

Well said. Lovely words.

I am angry that they made no effort in life to do anything other than fun stuff for themselves and now expect me and my siblings to pick up their mess

I didn't need to read further.

Why are you 'picking up their mess'? Boundaries OP!

Very true.

I think the difficult thing to accept here is that you cannot change her. That ship sailed a long long time ago. What you have control over is what you do, and (to a certain extent) how you feel. Control the things you can, and leave the things you cannot.

@Runskiyoga well said. @Blanketyre absolutely. I guess I try because I am a decent person. When I reflect on her, well their behaviour over the years I think if I had watched a friend in similar circumstances I would have advised them to walk away. I am keeping distance currently as I know I have very little left in the tank to deal with her. I get a lot of solace from this site and also sensible help from https://outofthefog.website/toolbox-1/2015/11/17/fog-fear-obligation-guilt. even so every now and again I am bereft at knowing my mother in particular thinks it is acceptable to treat us as she has and continues to do.

I totally understand @BlueLegume . I have written posts before about how the generation that were young in the late 1950s - mid 1970s were the most selfish and indulged ever, which has led to the crumbling of society since. And a total lack in their seeing more than their own fortunate lives.

Free love (sleeping around), cheap houses (3 x the salary was enough for a mortgage back then - not now), giving kids whisky soaked dummies to "help with their teething" (and shut them up), leaving kids in a car outside a pub and flinging them a bottle of lemonade and a bag of crisps is meant to be a funny anecdote etc etc

Now these people are annoyed to be the old ones, moaning about the pensions they got at 60 (we have to work till 67 at least to get it) and moaning that their £300 a year heating help has gone. Despite the fact that they have coined in an extra 7 years worth of pension (so £££s of pounds) so will have more than we ever will, sitting in houses my children will NEVER be able to afford on 3 x their salaries.

I am getting to the age myself of being classed as "elderly", but still have a mother to care for. She luckily isnt a moaner on the whole but oh the hell we had of getting help for dad because of her pride in thinking she was the best at doing everything. Until she was nearly on her knees and then all hell broke lose and we had to rally around at the expense of time with our kids trying to sort the mess out she had allowed by continually saying "no" to our help/advice/suggestions.

Probably not overly helpful, but I have learned to cut right back with my offers. It is hard when you have been trained to be at a person's whim, but it is freeing once you allow yourself the right NOT to offer help. And sod what siblings think. Everyone has their own lives, and often these elderly parents did faff all for their own parents, and never felt guilty!

💝

@SnoozyTeaBags absolutely nodded along to all of your post. Mine mocked their peers 15 years ago or so when they were moving out of large unmanageable houses and into more suitable but still lovely homes which have meant they can manage more in later years. We even had to listen to ‘it’s a shame we won’t be able to go to X so Y’s anymore because we won’t fit’. X and Y had moved into a perfectly lovely little bungalow. What a stupid statement but typical of our mother - rather than look and say ‘oh that’s a nice sensible move to a lovely place’ she had to pick holes in it. Some one up thread mentioned about maintenance on the house. We literally cannot get anyone local to do anything at our mothers house as she has been rude to pretty everyone so they refuse the job.

Likewise, having worked with older adults , I am under no illusion as to how things can pan out for families where they still feel they have to provide care and support even though relationships are strained and have always been troublesome…it’s actually a cause of elder abuse as adult children are then in a position of power over now vulnerable parents. I’m certainly not able to provide that sort of care for my parent!

Having been there, I found the more you do for them, the greater the expectation. Even when my mother and MIL were fit and well, they were always looking for an excuse to offload any responsibility for anything on to us. They both expected my DH to organise their banking and investment, me to attend attend routine doctor’s appointments with them - because they couldn’t be bothered to listen, never took ownership or responsibility of their own issues, complained about medical issues but then didn’t take medication prescribed.

I used to hate Christmas because we would pick them up, bring them over and all they would do was moan about waiting for their dinner, what a waste of money Christmas was, how much the celebrations cost (they contributed nothing!) the fact they thought the DCs should wait until after lunch to open presents etc etc.

They both became obsessed with what their neighbours were doing - that didn’t affect them in any way - but they felt they had a right to comment rudely if they didn’t approve.

As many on here have said, I don’t think they fundamentally changed but because they had more time to think about things, they lose their filters and acquire a sense of entitlement.

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas absolutely to the filters. I also think that I have always sort of rolled my eyes at my parents ‘anecdotes’ and at times bizarrely ill advised life choices but as I have matured and certainly having children of my own I have found myself aghast looking back. Parties till early hours of the morning on a school night is one of the real bugbears I reflect on. Impromptu they may have been but Sunday night became sacred when I had my kids so they started the week well rested and calm. As they have got elderly I have tried to ‘entertain them’ to alleviate their moaning about being bored etc. In lockdown I sent all sorts of things books, jigsaws, puzzles, DVDs you name it. Something wrong with absolutely all of them. In the end I realised they just like to complain. Looking back on childhood they were incredibly attractive and I do think they have struggled to accept the aging process - whereas I embrace it. I think my mother particularly thought she could eat steamed fish and veg and stave off old age!

Just walk away.

The parent you wish you had, the one you would have had a healthy relationship with, would not want this for you and would not put the burden on you.

These threads have so helped me and stop me feeling guilty about how I feel about my mum. My sister and I are both in our 50s and my mother still dominates us, just as she did throughout our childhood. Mum is now 86. She has been widowed for almost 3 years and relies on us to do absolutely everything.

What makes it harder, is that everything has to be done her way and we receive constant criticism. Yesterday., I asked her to just trust me with what I was doing and not tell me how to do it. As result she stood with her head down in the middle of the room and wouldn't talk to me. I tried to pull out of it and offered to take her shopping and to the garden centre but she just kept ignoring me or saying she didn't know what she wanted to do. Then she sat in a chair with her head down and still wouldn't talk to me. This went on for a while until she told me that she felt 'utterly crushed' by me. For the first time ever I left her house without having done her shopping or taking her wherever she needed to go. I felt awful and I was so upset but I had to get away. She was full of remorse on the phone later, but I doubt this changes much.
My sister and I feel totally trapped knowing that every week we have to go through this. The demands are never-ending and she won't help herself despite being extremely well off. She won't use a taxi because it 'goes against the grain' but expects us to drive all the way over to her house to take her 10 minutes down the road. I have a family with two children at secondary school and I just feel exhausted. What's really horrifying and she says to us that she expects our children to do the same for us one day. I only hope I never put my children through this experience.

I really feel for everybody who posts on here .

@SuGP Again another post I could have written. Our mother does exactly the same hanging her head or putting her hands over her face. It’s so hard when sensible people are putting forward sensible arguments but all I get is “I don’t want that”…. With zero offer of what she wants. It’s toddler type behaviour but she’s always done this, so not new. She refuses to get outside help even though she has plenty of money. She uses tactics that mean we have to physically be present. I filled her freezer earlier this year with individual portions of home made meals. Went the weekend after and asked how they were. She’d thrown them away as she doesn’t like food from the freezer. I actually challenged her about her behaviour and asked if she thought one of us moving in was what she was hoping for. In short her answer was yes. My daughter sent me a brilliant clip from the US of a woman acting out an older person expecting help from their adult daughter. It’s hard to explain but it went along the lines of letting the older person know that they hadn’t “paid in” for the kind of returns they wanted- sort of a pension type thing you can draw on. Terrible description but think you get the gist - our mother certainly did not invest in being kind or caring - just judgemental and critical.

Perfect timing for this thread. Thank you, I wish to just wallow with others without risking my good reputation with those who can never understand.
I'm 50 ISH and friends are losing their much loved parents, my dad died last year and it's been absolutely fine. He was sick and old had lived a long life, had a rich retirement and was as unpleasant on the day he died as he had been throughout my life.

My mum is currently deifying him and his equally bullish brother. Apparently they were both so wise, so kind, a rock. Everyone loved them.
I don't agree with my of that, they were Brexit voting, homophobic, racist, small minded and if they did you a favour it was like you'd done a deal with Tony Soprano.

My mum's current tactic is to talk about 'her maternal instinct' this is genius. It means she can subtly plant insecurity since my own maternal instinct bollocks doesn't manifest in the same way therefore I'm clearly a psychopath/always been weird/need treatment/ all together horrible. And she gets to shower my functioning alcoholic golden child brother with platitudes and money, building an unhelpful dependency.

36 minutes on the phone is like an entire HBO award winning series of emotional manipulation.

@Septoctwed again I could have written that entire post. Yep yep yep I kept saying to myself. My mother is currently making out she can’t cope because “your Dad made all the decisions and I had to follow his rules”. Utter nonsense. She was is always has ruled the roost, made everything about her. I joked last year that Dad hasn’t made a decision since the day they married. Our family had to “look” perfect but I remember as a child the constant nagging feeling in my stomach that she could just snap and the day, holiday, party would be ruined. When I was buying a house with my now husband we both worked an hour from our home town so decided to buy near to our work. She literally had a meltdown screaming in my face as to why “round here” wasn’t good enough. I actually explained to her that 1) where we worked was better value housing 2) it saved us needing two cars which seemed sensible and she responded by telling me I should be around to “help me in my old age”. She was 48 at the time. The mortgage rate was 15% so every penny counted. Absolutely to the phone calls. She’s had verbal diarrhoea all her life - monologues no space to interact and now she is almost mute apparently because she “can see what she was like and why did no one tell me” Vent away we are good people 🤗

If you go to this thread, you’ll find it very revealing. So many traits described here that also fit.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/parenting/4918259-quotes-from-narcissistic-mothers-support-for-their-victims-thread-3?page=14

Just remember that when arseholes get old they are still arseholes but old ones.
They don't grow halo's

You are obviously a decent person - you will still be a decent person if you stop doing so much for your mum, you will still be a decent person if you stop doing anything for them, you will still be a decent person if you only visit once a month for a brew. You are a decent person.

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas wow what a thread. I know my mother has narcissistic traits but I try to bury the thoughts. I had therapy which helped. I have whizzed through some of the thread and simply left nodding in agreement. Will have a proper look tonight. My husband has been super but he does ask why keep trying? I guess it’s the little kid in me seeking any crumbs of approval.