🪳 🪳 🪳 Cockroach Café Late Summer 2024

[MereDintofPandiculation]

Welcome in to the Cockroach Café Bad Daughters’ Room. all fresh and clean for the new season. Join me over here on the sofas amongst the rugs and cushions if you’ve come in from the rain, or over the other side in the shade if it’s 33 degrees outside. Looks like it’s either one or the other.

Good daughters, find your way to the small room behind the stairs. Sorry it’s not as equipped as here, but it doesn’t get much use.

Come in when you want to share good news, or to rant, or just to hang out with others who understand what you're going through. The way MN works, hopefully this thread won’t appear in any featured lists, and the only people wandering in will be those who understand what it’s all about.

If you have a BIG question, it might be worth giving it its own thread, so as not to swamp this one.

For newbies: why cockroach? Previous long term resident of "Elderly Parents" Yolo's DM attended a 'small animal event' in a nursing home, and was presented with a "small animal with a hard back" the name of which species she couldn't remember. Her ever helpful DB suggested cockroach, and it has become a toast on here. My recent enquiries suggested more people wanted to keep the well known name than wanted to change it to something more savoury, so for the moment it stays.

@BlueLegume I love your post and observation, probably as I can relate. In my case it has always been about how our family looks to the outside world (no matter the internal issues that remain uresolved till this day) DM in her 80s now, DF passed away 8 years ago. I come from a very firm upbringining and even now as a middle aged woman I am being treated like an 11 yo, despite boundaries. Both my parents always knew better even if they didn't. They were so stuck in their ways till the point of losing out. One story that of course never gets brought up is of a property. There was an appartment that my Nan used to live in and was then suppose to be for me in the future. When I was in my 20s and wanted to get married and start my family, my husband and I wanted to live there for a year before the wedding and then continue to live there after. We were told we can not live there because 'they say so' and next my parents sold the flat for absolutely nothing 30 years ago, which is fine. Husband and I we saved up (different times and got our new place elsewhere, then we moved hundreds of miles away). The topic of how much they lost on this transaction got never brought up. I did find out later that it was all about putting a stop to our wedding by creating a living obstacle. My parents did not like my husband. Technology - not interested - never wanted to learn how to send a text message, can not understand why people use smartphones (she has her button mobile), never had an email, bought her a coffee machine doesnt use it, electric whisk and chopper - doesnt use it, kitchen work tops cut so low you actually get a neck pain making breakfast, new washing machine for past 3 years but she still asks me which button to press. Hearing aid drama as well, my DM is def, she actually has a disability but refuses to wear her aid, then when I speak loud she gets offended I speak loud and clear. Her phones are on max, tv on max it is crazy loud and she still can not hear the phone ringing. I know for her it is a lot of vanity in it. She is thin and frail but still 'has to be on a diet' which is ridiculous as she is tiny. I speak to her every evening and listen to her woes me about not eating because she can not be bothered to cook and eat alone. If I cook she doesnt like it (and I used to cook professionally for recipe development) but if a stranger cooks for her it is delicious. The 'eat alone' is a guilt trip, I get that. Now we have a new hair drama where she is obsessed with losing her hair. She always had very thin hair and has used harsh bleaches way too often plus I tell her it is the time of year we all naturally lose hair. No she has her own theory. I just let her go with it. As she is very particluar and always been I now can see how difficult my teenage years were and how I got conditioned to just be submissive to pacify and adjust to my DMs moods. This then very much influenced all my adutl life choices. I live far away, I am the only child but this year she started making comments about me moving closer by to cook for her and run errands but not to live with her. What she wants is me to buy a property next door and bring her cooked meals and be the lady in waiting. I am suppose to put my life on hold, leave my home, my DP, my job and miraculously do this. Of course there is a lot arguments as I can barely do anything right. So why would I sign up to this. The thing that used to make me furious but now I just ignore, is - she will ask my opinion then if it is not what she wants to hear she will get stroppy, then go and ask someone else, the person would tell her the same as me and then she would come back and say so and so told her this and what a great suggestion. Basically as long as it is not coming from me. My DP and I we spend Christmas separately again he has his family dramas, I am going to see my DM and I said I am coming for 5 days to which she said with disappointment oh only for 5 days, oh well I guess it needs to be, how very sad, and the tone of voice was all guilt trip again. I literally can sense her mood from the tone of her voice. She can not understand I have limited days off, I work, and simply I have my life. Plus for over 25 years when I visit there is nowhere to sleep in 3 bedroom place, so I sleep on an armchair that you can extend. It is very uncomfortable as it si not suitable for sleeping and for 25 years she refuses to put a bed there or a sofa bed becasue it will affect the look of the room she told me once. Anyone else with particular DMs? I think our parents were always like that it just intensifies later in life when they get old and we become far more aware and observant.

My mum got hearing aids from Specsa Mrs 4 years ago but forgot they were hers as she forgot she'd had a hearing test. She only had the test to "provemy hearing is fine" and naturally chose the most expensive model. We haven't seen them since just after dad died early 2022 and suspect she thought they were his and threw them away. She doesn't like using the phone, says she finds it intrusive (in true mumsnet style😅) but I suspect that the reality is because she finds it difficult to hear - but obviously that's because it's a poor line/caller is quiet or has a strong accent not her hearing. Often she just doesn't hear it ring over the tv/radio blasting out.

Totally lost my rag with DH at lunchtime and had to go for a very sweary walk to calm down. I've had a shit morning talking to social services and one of mum's friends - discovered she's not been going to a social activity she tells me she goes to every week for over a year and the friend she's been telling me she meets regularly for coffee and who allegedly gives her a lift to the weekly activity that she hasn'tbeen to has been ill for the last 3 months. Then DH pops in and lunchtime and made a casual comment to the dogs that I didn't understand. Turns out the dogs stole and ate virtually a whole pack of sweets that I'd brought back for him. Chocolate sweets. And not only had he not phoned the vet for advice he'd not mentioned it to me and he was working in an area with a poor mobile signal this morning so if the dogs had fallen ill I would have had no idea why and wouldn't have been able tptell the vet. Livid doesn't cover it on top of the shitty morning. He'd gone back to work when I got home and I hope he is stewing. So it's him as well as both brothers (both sticking their heads in the sand re current mum issues) I'm fed up with now. Why do men have to be so effing stupid?

@BlueLegume and @shopautumn yes my mother shares many of these traits. I’ve read your other thread Blue and can relate (mine’s not as bad, if anything, as she’s quite elderly now and has run out of steam and run out of people to argue with; I think she knows she’s dependent so she can no longer afford to just piss me off the way she used to).
I spent many years trying to figure out why she is the way she is. When her sister was alive she used to tell me my mother had always been like that, even when they were kids, and my Dad used to tell me that when they were first married, her mood swings would be such that he would get home from work, put his key in the door and « never know which version of her he was going to get, » the one in a good mood or a foul mood. I grew up with her volatile temper (she only hit me once, as a teenager, I think she was genuinely upset about that), but shouted often and said some terrible things to me at a very young and impressionable age. She’d deny it all now.
Of course as I’ve got older I’ve tried to figure it out. Maybe there was family trauma, she was the youngest of 4, grew up in the 30s, they were poor, Dad was a miner. But that didn’t last forever, she married relatively well for the time and place, didn’t have to work. But I remember when I was about 12 she had a breakdown, talked about suicide, went to bed for a week, it was awful. I think she always felt unfulfilled. That must have been menopause. She never sought help, I think she was afraid of being sectioned (a real risk back then). I used to think she was bipolar, but as we’ve all learned more about ND in recent decades I think ADHD would explosion an awful lot of her behaviour and personality. I see ADHD in me too but luckily I have had the chance to have a god career and in many ways it’s helped me, albeit I do struggle with focus and distractions and follow through. For Mum it manifests as a chaotic personality - she can’t finish things, can’t concentrate, can’t remember things (was always the same), has no sense of direction, was a disastrous driver and gave it up, can’t use technology, can’t make a decision, is impulsive, has a temper, has melt downs effectively. Socially anxious and deals with that by being sniffy, snobby and generally a bitch about other people. Has no boundaries as far as I’m concerned, treats me like an extension of herself with no ability to understand my independent thoughts and opinions.

Anyway, sorry… yes, hard relate!

@countrygirl99 that’s a pain in the ass 🙄

I've checked and he has now spoken to the vet who doesn't think there was enough actual chocolate to cause problems so that's a relief. I'd told him if anything happened to them because he'd been so stupid he'd need to find somewhere else to live.

@shopautumn @MotherOfCatBoy again I have nodded along reading through your last 2 posts.

Everything is and always has been about control. Even my mother’s behaviour now is about her controlling things. You fill the freezer with frankly awesome ready meals - she tells you she won’t use the freezer - cue having to visit more. And it goes on.

I sat there yesterday thinking how very different this would have been if my mother was the one in a nursing facility and my Dad was still in the family home. Although I doubt any home would tolerate her behaviour. I know for a fact he would happily have accepted a meals on wheels type service - there is a family run award winning one in their town. I know he would have pootled up the road to see his brother. My mother refuses to even engage with her sister who’d happily have her round for a meal or a brew. Dad would definitely have availed himself of the numerous cafes a walk away mainly because she refused to ever use them because they were ‘common’. Basically he would have embraced things to make life better more bearable but she wants us all to suffer because she regrets her poor choices and is resentful of everyone else.

When we were younger and as families do people would upgrade to a bigger family property etc she would say things like ‘it’s alright for So and So they’ve got a big detached house’ as if they had been presented with it. On reflection she is and always has been incredibly immature, jealous and spiteful when anyone has better than her.

As a positive I try to see good in people having nice lives they have worked hard for and in fairness I just don’t feel envy at all. I am very happy with my life (except for the blot on the landscape which is the complexities of my mother)

to those having a tough time with the oldies.

We are going to leave MIL alone in the house this evening for something that's been arranged for ages. DH is fretting and wants to bail out as he doesn't think that MIL can find her way to the toilet on her own. Funny how she finds her way when it's only me in the house.

Now MIL is doing a number on DH. She is "scared of being left in the house on her own" she can't give any reason why though.

Ffs we are going out for an hour and a half and will be back by 9pm.

@Morenicecardigans so difficult. It’s all about control. Hard as it is can you steel yourselves and just go?

@MotherOfCatBoy When you put that she didn't have to work, that stood out for me, along with the ND traits.

Mine was a SAHM for years and she was absolutely dreadful at it. No patience, a lot of drama, expected instant obedience and a perfect image to be presented. She is the last person you'd leave in charge of children! The obsession with appearances and the minutiae of phone calls and who has sent a card to whom also makes me think of someone with not enough to occupy their time.

I know I found maternity leave incredibly difficult because I'm not cut out for being at home with a child all the time. I missed the stimulation and interest of work and I think I'm a better parent for also working. Mine was very disapproving when I went back to work, as I hadn't done what she'd done (couldn't afford to!) but it was really the best decision.

I wonder if there's a generation of women out there making their daughters' lives hell because they weren't cut out for being at home with children but didn't have a choice at the time?

@BlueLegume i'm going but I really don't want DH to stay at home. Yep it's all about control.

This evening I got told that all the Christmas's since dad died have been dreadful because she was left at home on Christmas Day. Both have been spent at out house, totally planned around her needs and involved 2 2 hour round trips to collect and take home. The first year she stayed over but struggled with the stairs so last year meant 4 hours of driving Christmas Day, now I wonder why I bothered.

@BlueLegume all control. Even hundreds of miles away and over the phone still control through the mood. I phoned again today as every evening. My DP said I spoke exceptionally softly with DM today - has something happened? I said no, in fact she gave me bollocking for having the wrong tone of voice. For context I have some throat infection and my voice is very husky atm. I asked her what tone and she snapped at me 'exactly that!' and then went on about how in the 90s I treated Dad and her as enemies. I never did so clearly she either watched something on tv or got herself bamboozled with a story from the 90s. Mind you she is in conflict with everyone in the family but absolutely lovely to friends she made in recent years.
What I observed in the last 12 months is that she fallen out with everyone that knows her more than 10 years. She has a cousin who lives next street - they are in conflict - snippy comments. Her sister - not spoken to each other 25 years (!!!) eventhough sister tried many times, no one knows what is the bee in the bonnet about. I can not speak to that side of the family either, to my lovey cousin as my DM doesnt like her and me talking to them is a betrayal.

She has been going on about her hair for 3 days now so I was reading her out the list for suplements and also suggested that perhaps better to go to trichologist and have her scalp and hair assesed. I dicated her a phone number to make a note and I know she did not make the note because she did not leave the phone to get pen and paper. She snapped at me being ridiculous, she will not be going around some strange doctors. Then she says to me 'someone told her it is the time of year that hair falls out' - yes it was me yesterday when we spoke. But of course in her mind it was someone else not her horrible daughter. Every call is about her and this year gradually I withdraw information about me, I noticed because she becomes more and more self absorbed she doesnt even notice. I dread Christmas. It will be just her and me 4 days. But I am very proud that this is my shortest stay which means setting boundaries is real. I also do not have ideal situation with my DP atm, we have been having a crisis for a while but sometimes when I think about what is worse being in crisis relationship but in your space and privacy or to look after your DM and be exposed to her mood swings and volatility. Why do we always have to adjust to their moods but they can never reflect on their behaviour? Oh and when I said I have throat infection she said she also have one worse than mine. Her voice was as usual. This year she really changed for worse.

@countrygirl99 and the guilt isn't it? You try so hard to make it all nice and they will drop one comment how it is dreadful and thats it. ruin it for everyone. Mine I try to organise nice as well since DF dies 8 years ago - alwasy something is wrong and she goes on about how it used to be when she used to do it - I only remember massive rows at christmas if I mention anything I made it up. Clearly! I feel so sorry for the elderly but they never reflect on themselves and never feel sorry for us.

I've had a supremely shitty day today and told DH he be safer not reminding me what a prick he was this morning as I'm completely arseholed out today. It's now really clear that mum is living in a fantasy world even if she appears on the surface to be coping. She really needs to be in a home because it appears she is behaving in a way that puts her at significant risk but we can't prove it's her and not someone else so social services can't apply deprivation of liberty and as she's actually physically very fit for her age other care needs can't be applied to the same end. So basically we are now waiting for a potentially violent confrontation with a random member of the public before we can do anything.
I'm on the wine!

@countrygirl99 big hug. I know it will sound cliche but tomorrow is a new day and new possibilties. I completely get your point. Enjoy your wine.

Can I pop in for an early breakfast?

I'm at the end of my tether. DM is in hospital, as a family we are rallying round to care for DF, but due to their stubborn obstinacy and refusal to accept help over many years there are now so many difficulties that bringing DM home even if she was better is just not possible. But they can't see the problems, they're blind to them. I'll speak to her doctor to tell him the truth as I suspect he's not got the full story. I'm burnt out and it's only been a few weeks.

@RomanMum morning. This was us in 2023 only DF in hospital and mother insisting he ‘come home’ when in fact due to exactly the reasons you state ‘home’ was not something we could consider. My sister and I had to eventually organise a ‘best interests’ meeting - aided by an amazing ward doctor who listened to our concerns. Our main concern was that our mother had roped in our brother to collude that she ‘would try having Dad at home to see if she could manage’. Utterly ridiculous. His consultant had said he needed full nursing care 6 months earlier. He was doubly incontinent and needed 2 people just to walk with a frame.

Unfortunately the meeting didn’t happen as he was moved to a reablement unit BUT they were amazing. I had been away and when I came back the clinical lead literally pounced on me when I set foot in the building. She explained whilst they were happy caring for Dad it was now time to look for a long term facility that would be able to cater for his needs as his illness progressed. A multi disciplinary team meeting was hastily organised and they explained that they had invoked a deprivation of liberty (DoLs) on Dad meaning we had to accept he had to be placed in a nursing facility.

It was a relief to be honest as it had been my sister and I ‘fighting’ to get my Dad somewhere safe whilst my mother and brother faffed about talking about buying special beds and stairlifts.

Their home is completely unsuitable for a fit and healthy elderly parent but they buried their heads in the sand and did nothing to take on board suggested ideas over many years to adapt.

I have only written all this down so you can perhaps share what you might anticipate will happen. It is baffling that people do not listen to clinicians - yes it is tough but there has to be a degree of reality and pragmatism when an elderly person clearly requires nursing care. Our Dad is now thriving as best he can in his facility. Don’t be shy. Be honest with the staff that home is not suitable and also do not volunteer for care duties. I doubt you are qualified and also it means you cannot spend quality time with either parent. 🤗

One reason my FIL is moving at 85 is he's very aware that whilst he can cope now, health and mobility can quickly change overnight at this age- he also wanted to be nearer better medical care as it's awful in his current area and with facilities for leisure and public transport on the doorstep- ok it was a bit of hard work as he only wanted freehold bungalows with a garage and in good order and without a huge garden and no estates - but we got there .

Some of your parents it seems simply were not prepared to accept their current set up wasn't in their best interests for independence and consequently have become very dependent - the only good thing is it shows us exactly how not to do things for the sanity of our own families

I think what’s so refreshing about your FIL @Crikeyalmighty is that he’s retained that self awareness. My mother looked after her mother and was very vocal about everything grandma had done wrong, ie staying in the family home too long, only downsizing when forced by health, not accepting outside help and relying on my mum (only child). And yet she took the same route and ended up in exactly the same situation as grandma.

Denial is a recurring theme on here, how our awareness fades with age, the reluctance to admit that old age is upon us and the time for decision is now while we have our health and faculties and ability to cope with change. It seems to be very very common to the point your FIL is an outlier. In my mums case, I strongly suspect that she was experiencing the very early stages of her dementia when she actively chose to stay in the house after dad died, rather than downsize at that point. That probably impacted her decision making as she prioritised the familiar over the unknown - she verbalised it as having good neighbours where she is.

@funnelfan I think you are right and so far I'm not seeing signs of dementia- he's a very pragmatic bloke, an ex project manager who had worked abroad a lot too and hence he looks at things in a logical way - I'm not saying he's perfect- he bought into the Brexit stuff and now regrets it, at one point admired Farage ( now thinks he's a bullshitting greedy opportunist) and he does like a drink or two - but I'm very fond of the old duffer!! And i think the fact he's gone out his way to make things easier for himself , and by default for us too, means I actually feel inclined to help as much as is possible going forward when needed. It seems to be common on here that quite a lot of elderly parents just stick their head in the sand , don't actually build the goodwill /affection between you all and then still expect everyone to be at their beck and call

It’s weird, but sometimes mine annoy me by NOT asking for enough help! Dad phoned earlier, saying for me not to do my normal Wednesday visit, as DM had been up in the night and was going back to bed for the day (long history of disrupted and abnormal sleep patterns, this is not unusual). So I get a spare day (yay!) and will go on Monday now instead. But I worry that when I’m not there weekly to keep an eye, they keep sliding inevitably to more and more mess and only just coping. I think Dad has this idea that he doesn’t want to bother me too much - and that’s nice - but I would actually be far happier to really get stuck in on the big stuff - a massive declutter, proper cleaning, getting a gardener, getting the house just to the state where a cleaner could come in - than the occasional bit of shopping or cleaning a window here and shifting a bed frame there. They fixate on the trivial and ignore the large and important, and it drives me nuts. It’s another version of not seeing how bad it is.

Some really thought provoking posts at the moment.

This is such a helpful space when I’m feeling beaten down by my own ostrich elderly parent who won’t allow me to make his life more comfortable (because he wants to control everything). DF refuses to enjoy the lovely nursing home, he compares it with some fantasy life where he is not incredibly frail and losing his mind because he just doesn’t accept it’s happening.

I can empathise and sympathise but comparison is the thief of joy and I wish DF could be more pragmatic.

Keeping it vague but today in my job I encountered a family surrounding an unwell elderly person, they were all so loving and also/therefore so realistic and pragmatic. I thought of all the people on this board and found myself a bit wet-eyed. There is a lot of love in these hard decisions, real love not the sort you get in a wall decoration.