🪳 🪳 🪳 Cockroach Café Late Summer 2024

[MereDintofPandiculation]

Welcome in to the Cockroach Café Bad Daughters’ Room. all fresh and clean for the new season. Join me over here on the sofas amongst the rugs and cushions if you’ve come in from the rain, or over the other side in the shade if it’s 33 degrees outside. Looks like it’s either one or the other.

Good daughters, find your way to the small room behind the stairs. Sorry it’s not as equipped as here, but it doesn’t get much use.

Come in when you want to share good news, or to rant, or just to hang out with others who understand what you're going through. The way MN works, hopefully this thread won’t appear in any featured lists, and the only people wandering in will be those who understand what it’s all about.

If you have a BIG question, it might be worth giving it its own thread, so as not to swamp this one.

For newbies: why cockroach? Previous long term resident of "Elderly Parents" Yolo's DM attended a 'small animal event' in a nursing home, and was presented with a "small animal with a hard back" the name of which species she couldn't remember. Her ever helpful DB suggested cockroach, and it has become a toast on here. My recent enquiries suggested more people wanted to keep the well known name than wanted to change it to something more savoury, so for the moment it stays.

@notcopingwellwithDMdementia
Hope you're not still there and you managed to get home and get some sleep!

@EmotionalBlackmail excellent observations. Highlights so much of the fact the generation our parents came from have to some extent had few options to develop coping skills. Unlike their parents who lived through and fought in the WW2. Totally resilient and practical.

I can remember the strange jolt I had about 30 when I realised my mother was asking my advice on what cooker to buy. And of course I ask children’s advice on things unfamiliar to me. But accepting they know better than me where I should live, how I should live my life day to day, is a whole different ball game

@MereDintofPandiculation totally agree that foisting our views onto elderly people is wrong. I think where the areas get blurred are when our parents require help, we begin patiently listening to their problems we perhaps make some sense of how things could be alleviated but they reject all suggestions. Essentially for me I realised they never wanted solutions they just wanted to let me know that they were miserable and begrudged me my own life. Every one has a different story and perspective but I do see how we might end up looking like we are trying to make them do things. Sometimes it’s because for example they have a huge garden that they can’t manage. They refused to downsize. I suggested a gardener - they refused. They had assumed BlueLegume would “rally round and help now you are retired “. No consideration or conversation just assumptions.

I'm probably over-sensitive on the topic. We're of the age that other people are complaining about (I'm in my 70s, DH in his 80s). I have a large garden that is beginning to drift away from me. But I wouldn't dream of getting DC to help, I'm working on making it easier to manage, and last year I had a chap in to do the hedges. This year I'll also ask him to fell a tall cypress rather than let DH do it. Some time I will need a cleaner, but not yet.

I'm not downsizing until I have to. I love the house, it gives me joy every day, and my passion in life is gardening. So when I see on here all the advice to move before you have to, and in your 60s or even 50s, I see people telling me I should give up my life.

And I'd certainly take a dim view of DC trying to badger me into a retirement flat. (though as I still have a centenarian DF, they don't yet see us as the generation needing care).

They had assumed BlueLegume would “rally round and help now you are retired “. No consideration or conversation just assumptions.

This is what gets me. The family will rally round. The family being a couple with children who both work 50hrs pw with a 2 hr commute to be on-site on top of that. The actual family, the rest of the family with one exception, is just a peanut gallery and zero use.

@MereDintofPandiculation again a really good post and I absolutely take on all your points. The difference is you ‘are working on making things easier to manage’. There it is in a nutshell. YOU are holding yourself responsible and being proactive. At no point have I tried to force our parents into moving. I have simply listened to them moaning about not being able to manage the house/garden/cleaning etc and put forward some ideas. Mainly because I could see they were completely not managing anything. It is a breath of fresh air to hear you get so much joy from your home and garden, mine have lived where they are for almost 60 years and other than when the front door is shut they have relentlessly moaned about every neighbour the lack of facilities in the area - there are loads they were/are too snobby to use the local eateries etc. If you were my parent it would be a pleasure to help as you are clearly also helping yourself. I am not naive to the fact my mother is jealous of me. It is a difficult sentence to type that but she is and rather than admit it or do something about it she has always tried to make me feel guilty that she doesn’t have what I have. But I have made choices. She has not. That is not my fault that she finds herself miserable. Suggested things like a gardener because it is too much for me to do. Suggested a food delivery because I live an hour away and cannot always drop everything. Suggested a cleaner because I have one and it is helpful, plus my cleaning doesn’t meet her approval. I totally take on your points and actually think I will use your comments when she guilt trips me next saying ‘ it isn’t for me to dictate what you should do’

@FiniteSagacity thanks for the clearance tip - I think I will look for a service like that at some point. For now, I fantasise regularly about skips!

@BlueLegume I get it. I have a mother a bit like that. She’s not quite as intransigent as yours but she does have a persistent ability to ignore solutions and concentrate only on what interests her. In one way I applaud her for living her life as she wants to, puttering in the garden, but in others - house full of grime and mess - it creates more problems. I’m not saying I think she should spend her days cleaning (she’s not strong enough any more anyway), just that if she got a cleaner, she could still do the garden and not have to think about the house. But no. She won’t because she’d have to tidy up and take stuff out so that rooms could actually be cleaned properly, and she won’t do that because she doesn’t want to let go of anything and won’t make any decisions. It’s a kind of paralysis/ denial, and things slowly get worse and worse. It does my head in.

She won’t because she’d have to tidy up and take stuff out so that rooms could actually be cleaned properly, and she won’t do that because she doesn’t want to let go of anything I'm like that - storage room that I can't ask a cleaner to clean, but I'm not ready to clear out the stuff I have in there. What I have done for the DC is make a list of everything of either sentimental or monetary value, so at least they can make an informed decision before sending in the house clearance people, should my plans for disposing of stuff be thwarted.

mine have lived where they are for almost 60 years and other than when the front door is shut they have relentlessly moaned about every neighbour the lack of facilities in the area When my father first moved up here (at the age of 86) we had a period of grumbling about the library facilities etc. I took it to mean he was still unsettled about the move. Once he'd settled in, joined a few community voluntary groups, got a ticket to the university library, all we heard was how helpful everyone was up here. Perception of the outside world can depend on how happy you are in yourself.

@BlueLegume Is your user name simply wordplay or do you have a blue legume in mind, eg Dolichos lablab?

Suggested a food delivery because I live an hour away and cannot always drop everything. If Dad had lived an hour away, no way would I have done his shopping! It drove me mad when he was 5 mins walk away, just the organisation required to shop for a faddy eater of quite irrational habits.

@MereDintofPandiculation no option re the shopping for food. Mum decided she couldn’t- insert wouldn’t go shopping once we settled Dad in the nursing home. She just said ‘I can’t go to the shops because people will hate me for putting (Dads name) in a home’. Ironically she didn’t put him in the home we did. She left him in a wholly unsuitable setting and eventually a DoLs was put in place as she kept refusing to engage with health care professionals. She refuses a food delivery. Stocked her freezer up informed us she ‘won’t use anything frozen I want fresh’. We’ve sort of moved on now but honestly I kid you not she is beyond obstinate, she plays a little girl lost big eyes look but she ensures the only options we have is to visit with supplies etc. I appreciate she is lonely but she is and always has been pretty tricky to be around. It’s totally derailed our lives.

I left the hospital at 3am, home for a few hours sleep, I've been to work and now back at the hospital.
They are admitting her, they wanted to scan her but she was too agitated.
She is much calmer currently but has apparently been a bit of a handful this morning!

@EmotionalBlackmail you have summed up my childhood!! Do what you're told or I'll wallop you, cry and I'll wallop you to give you something to cry about. Achieve so that I can boast about you, do not fail to achieve or you will shame me etc etc etc.

I have been conditioned to be DM's whipping post. I understand that now, it still makes me very cross if I let it. Last night I could have lost my temper with her.

Today I am just smiling and agreeing with all of the nonsense she is saying.

I have tried to be a completely different parent (& have hopefully succeeded.) I think that the relationship my kids have with me is the polar opposite to the one I had with my parents. I really don't want to be this much hard work to them when I am elderly!! I don't know about anyone else but I feel like I'm here for her out of duty and not love (which sounds awful and I'd never admit to it in real life!!)

As I've been typing this a nurse has said she can be discharged. I said she'll be back in a day or so if you don't sort the uti out. The nurse agrees and has gone to find the medical team to discuss 🙄

@notcopingwellwithDMdementia oh goodness. Can you be firm that discharge home is completely un doable? Is there a reablement type halfway house in your area? We were lucky Dad was moved to this for a considerable time - I am happy to message you privately with more information if that helps. Just wary on here as it would potentially be very outing. The reablement place was not perfect as a setting for Dad but it was better than the crisis him going back to Mum would have been. Let me know and I can message you. I had no idea such a place existed until Dad.

@BlueLegume they are trying to tell me that because the carers who go in to give her her meds twice a day are privately funded then we just need to pay for more care! We can't just magic up extra carers overnight!

If she goes home she'll just end up back here which is the argument I am having with them now.

Her GP nurse has already put a referral in for social care to assess her for some respite care.

I will simply just continue to say she won't be safe and if need be keep pestering the GP surgery. If she wanders I'll call the police - one way or another she'll get some help!

Thank you for your offer - I may dm you depending on the outcome today

God, @notcopingwellwithDMdementia , still on the bloody carousel of joy, then. We're having a day of it here, but I'm acting as Comms HQ, so at least I'm spared the brunt of it.

You need to say to them that you disagree @notcopingwellwithDMdementia , you view this as an unsafe discharge because the correct care plan is not in place, the current two times a day carer visits are not sufficient. She needs a further social care assessment because her needs have changed. You are not prepared to take her home without appropriate care and support in place and you will make a complaint if they seek to discharge her without a plan and carers in place. You can speak to PALS to complain.

Thank you @Choconuttolata - currently I have told them I have to go and have left the ward. She is full on hallucinating cats and dogs on other patients and going to talk to them. If I try to stop her she gets agitated and angry.
I can't cope with it on 3 hours sleep and no food.
I'm sure they will phone me if they need to!
I feel really bad for the nurses and other patients but I will be no good to anyone at this rate!

@BlueLegume Blimey! I'd have been sorely tempted to see if her aversion to frozen food remained if it was the only food in the house. But easier said than done!

Or "if you need fresh food, I'll see if there's a meals-on-wheels in the area"

@notcopingwellwithDMdementia good grief. @Choconuttolata is spot on. Just don’t answer the phone. They won’t turn her into the street. Turn your phone onto do not disturb, lie in the bath and get a good nights sleep knowing she’s safe. If she’s a massive pain in the neck they might do something.

Wishing you strength to be firm @notcopingwellwithDMdementia it is very clear there is an acute health situation and acute is what hospitals are for - if they wish to discharge then a respite stay in a setting with 24 hour support is the only way - I’m thinking antibiotics (possibly an hour before food) 3 or 4 times a day can’t be managed by carers in 2 visits (possibly too short to do dose plus food after). It all quickly becomes the same £££ as 24 hour.

@MereDintofPandiculation always appreciate you sharing the broader perspective - it is thought provoking and I am open to trying to understand.

Also echo @BlueLegume that I’m sure you’d be a pleasure to help - because you’re trying to help yourself and you enjoy your home and you’re planning ahead, even with the storage room.

I’m just coming to accept that I cannot make DF happy. I’m not sure I ever could or ever have. So I’ve stopped trying so hard.

You are quite right @FiniteSagacity - although now the doctors are saying that there is no infection and the rapid acute confusion is just an episode of her (as yet undiagnosed) dementia.

They referred her to the memory clinic (she's already had the first round of assessments done.)

It's so sad but as long as the patients are deemed medically fit the doctors want them gone. And I understand why, but there is just a gaping black hole where the social care support should be.

If DM had gone home alone today she would probably have fallen or gone off wandering and got hurt and then ended up straight back in A&E with physical illness caused by her confusion. The NHS and social care are in a very sorry state.

I’m just coming to accept that I cannot make DF happy. I’m not sure I ever could or ever have. So I’ve stopped trying so hard. That’s a lesson I learned with my ex. OK, it’s crap to leave someone who is depressed - but my presence wasn’t making him any less depressed (and I’d lost patience with his philandering). So might as well look after my own happiness. Principle transfers well to other relationships.

The trouble is when the family does rally round then the system ticks the box and moves away. Often the only way to get rapid, meaningful engagement is to not step up to a crisis. We’re very fortunate that DH’s aunt has worked in care, and ran an agency for many years, so knows the system inside out and is leading that charge for us. She sat us down early on and said not to take on more than we’re happy to keep up, and if you take it on then don’t complain about it. It’s true, but hard, and further complicated by being the only ones who do anything of use.

Oh gosh @notcopingwellwithDMdementia you must be exhausted.
Turn your phone off and get some sleep! If she's particularly awful in hospital that could help the argument for more support...

Sorry my last post sounds awful and bossy. I meant it in a ‘big sigh’ kind of way. I really feel for you @notcopingwellwithDMdementia it’s hard and it’s frustrating and it just shouldn’t be this way. I hope you get some rest tonight.