MCCarthy Stone- what's your view?

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Elderly parents in law thinking of a McCarthy Stone place. What do you think?

Is it good or bad? Are they financially worth it?
Do you lose money?

Relative who rented had a rental until she moved out. They couldnt change their mind or try and sell the apartment once she moved in. Its not that well know that you can rent them. That is why they were so fussy with the inital credit check. They arent cheap. If people are expecting something for say £500 per month M&S isnt for them.

Crumbling is right. I have seen them sold through the M&S resale dept or the local estate agents.

What was an issue there in my view is that people moving in there have often been persuaded to by their family who often live miles away or who are being constantly contacted by the elderly relative who are convinced that are fine living on their own (they almost always arent!).

They then move in and complain that its not the same as their old place which is of course true but its a different stage of their lives. The staff are often the target for their complaining. I got to know many many of the residents most of which were women.

Definitely consider a rental though although there is a minimum of 1 year contract so if it doesnt work out or the person is just too frail to live independently (more common than you might think) you will still be on the hook for a years rental. They do assess you to ensure that you understand what they offer but its not a huge assessment. There was a women who was trying to rent one and she passed the assessment and then announced that she was moving her DH in with her who had dementia. She was insisting that she would look after him and ensure he was kept safe but she was early 80's and the mamanger said they couldnt take the risk of something happening to her and he would be left on his own.

The issue with renting is the uncertainty about what the landlord will do - as you say, in some areas they can take a long time to sell, and so the estate / those that inherit often rent out while they try and sell. When I move somewhere at that age I want to know that I have control and security over my home in my twilight years!!

I think they are a bit like cars, the big drop in value is as soon as you "drive them off the forecourt" so to speak. A secondhand one might only be a year or two old but you are likely to be getting a big discount on the new price.

A friend's 98 year-old father is very happily in a M&S - been there about 10 years. He joins in with events and communal lunches when he feels like it, and has his own patio garden. Some of the residents still drive and they often go off to the supermarket together, etc.

When he was widowed a couple of years ago other residents rallied round. He sees his family regularly, so all good, from the lifestyle aspect.

This.

I have an elderly aunt in one, moved there in her early 80's, now in her 90's. Lovely little flat, great social life, they were incredibly well looked after during Covid, staff made sure they all had foods, meds etc. When she had a bout of ill health they arranged ambulance, called us to let us know. She's currently away on a "little coach trip" for a midweek break with one of her new chums.

Compared to the worry of her living alone in her house the M&S place is a godsend. She can have people over for meals in her flat, or invite them to lunch in the communal dining room. The food isn't 5 star to be fair, but it's nice and she loves it.

She was able to have her little dog there with her until he died (you can't get a new one but can take your existing dog) she now dog sits for one of the other residents.

I know when people need more care then they facilitate carers coming in so that the residents can stay as long as they can in their own home.

Yes the service charges are mind boggling, around £500 a month in my aunts place, and that's after buying the flat - but she sold her house to finance the move and it really was a sensible decision for her.

“A good move for the elderly person” includes the likelihood of them moving on to a care home and whether they have independent savings to pay for this.

Given the target market for these places and the locations they tend to build, I’d imagine anyone buying one has a decent retirement income, as well as other investments. Generally they’ll be downsizing from a much larger family home, freeing up hundreds of thousands in the process.

But, at the moment we are talking later boomer and early Gen X. I suspect as later Gen X and subsequent generations retire then those in the target market will have less disposable income and fewer liquid assets. Though, the same downsizing opportunity exists I suppose

@YesHesAPlonker I think if you buy second hand at a good price then it can work well- does it make financial sense - not really , but for those that have money to play with they can invest their house profits, often buy at much less and the interest will cover off the service job- equally I think they actually keep some older people from needing residential care homes which cost way more - as my FIL said to me, just important to realise you might get back 60% of what you paid (and only buy them in an in demand area) - and have enough money in bank for at least 3 years service charge post death . He is very pragmatic- far too many are only interested in getting their hands on their inheritance quickly rather than what gives the person a good quality of life

Very high service charges, even if it’s empty for a year or more after the person has died or moved to a care home - and it’s just not selling. Especially if bought new, I’ve heard of people having to take a big hit on the re-sell price.

We did look at one new MC&S flat for DM, but she wasn’t at all impressed - sitting room windows too small and high up to see out of when you were sitting down - and then only looking on to a car park!
And no dishwasher - Dm was very put out by the young salesperson saying, ‘They didn’t think old people would want them.’
That was decades ago now though.
Personally I wouldn’t touch them.

I’d question your assumptions. The one that has just opened near me has apartments priced at £300 - £400, which puts them in the same price range as the average family home in the area. I wouldn't expect that most of the residents will have pocketed “hundreds of thousands”.

Everyonesaying don't touch with a bargepole, what's the alternative for someone who can live independently, but needs/wants some support/security?

They seem like a good solution to me, provided you go in knowing a large part of the "investment" is money spent and don't expect it to behave like other investments in property.

Exactly. Especially for those of us with no family too. Such places could be an absolute lifeline.

Confort is exactly right. All these smug people stating it’s a rip off. For some people they are a great solution. Yes, you need money to buy them and they re not a property investment. They aren’t going to go up in value like other houses even in hotspots like London especially if you buy new. Buying new and then a couple of years later expecting to just sell them very easily to people who have to be 60 or even 70 is just plain daft.

My Mum had a great time in her one and it was either that or waiting for a catastrophic event to happen in her old house and then straight into a care home.

They do allow choices though. The alternative is relative staying in a large house, it getting more and more in disrepair with the old person getting more isolated especially if family aren’t around.

Well yes, except downsizing generally means in size and price to free up cash for later life / retirement. So I think my assumption is reasonable even if it doesn’t cover all cases :)

Its more London centric ageist bullshit as usual on this site

Ive just checked the ones near us, my OH could be called a boomer due to the fact that anyone born pre 80s seems to be called this these days. I am generation x

So the properties near us, all of them, are more than we would get for our 3 bed, 3 reception family home. Lol. Not much downsizing going on here in later years!!

Interestingly, just looked at ones near my parents, the cheapest rental (dont seem like there are any to buy) rent for just under 3k a month. I know that two houses in their road recently were rented out for this same amount.

No downsizing for them!

Ive been keeping an eye open for one bed, ground floor maisonettes or flats in the area where my parents are. Once my dad passes on (presuming its before my mum) I would advocate for her to get something like this, no service charges, or very small, means she can have a pet, she will be near her support network, she can have cleaners and hairdresser still pop in, she has a gardener now, she oculd maintain a small garden etc.

I think you hit on the key points. These places are not investments, what people are buying is security, peace of mind and comfort as they get older. Sure, you still need a decent income to pay the service charges but if that’s not an issue there’s clearly a market for them.

It sometimes seems as if those who are against see it purely as property play, and are concerned about an inheritance shrinking. Sure, they dress that up as the buyer being ripped off to justify their view, as if once you hit 65 you’re incapable of deciding what’s best for you. Whereas the buyer might see ‘losing’ £10k or £20k year for 10 years as a cheap price for that security and comfort. Yes, you could just buy a new flat, and for some that might be the right solution. But for many it won’t give the level of community, support or added facilities then they want and are willing to pay for.

Would I pour all my money into one, no. But as a way of buying myself a comfortable older age with some of it, sure. Why not?

I'm currently selling DM's retirement apartment. It was M&S though they have sold on the management to another company.
The property has served her well for years, she moved in at 69, central to the West Country city she moved to, with on-site parking. The management charge is pretty reasonable, of course it only covers cleaning of public areas, garden/building maintenance and a manger between 9 and 5. DM had her own cleaner for a couple of hours but otherwise managed independently.
When I look at one bedroomed property in her vicinity that are going for around £380,000, usually still have lease and management fees and no parking. I think her flat is an absolute bargain at £200,00,but potential buyers around 65+ think they are too young and 80+ need more support. There are a few residents who own an apartment to keep a property in the area, and actually live abroad. It is a pretty secure lock up and leave prospect.
Agent is confident it will sell but there is no rush of buyers.
As previous posters though, I don't resent the lack of investment return as it was the perfect property for DM.

A friend of ours, no longer with us, bought this sort of flat but I don't know if it was M&S. The residents ended up taking on the management of the block, made the manager redundant and rented out the manager's flat which gave the maintenance fund a good boost every month, took on a part time live out manager. She said they saved a lot of money and they all seemed to love running the place although they were paying for lots of it to be done.

No idea if that was a unique situation.

If you downsize from a £400k family house to a £300k one-bed apartment, you’re left with less than £100k after removal costs. That will be dipped into for the service charges, leaving a problem if you need to move into a care home and can’t sell your apartment quickly.

And that’s one reason many people don’t want to downsize - they can’t see themselves getting a cash benefit large enough to compensate for the upheaval.

Alternative might be to buy a “used” flat rather than one in the new block that’s just been completed.

I'm always puzzled by downsizing as a way to release funds, unless you live in a spectacularly expensive house I don't see how it's possible to release enough to make it worthwhile. My large 4 bed detached is worth about £500k. A 2 bed bungalow round here would cost about the same. I could get an ex council terrace for about £300k or a flat in a grotty block for a iut £250k, but I'd want something smaller, not less "nice".

A 2 bed flat in a luxury block would be about £400k, maybe more.

I don't see how downsizing is possible, unless I want to live somewhere not so nice as well as smaller.

What about upkeep costs and being able to look after a 4 bed detached house

My DM is in her 90s with limited mobility. No way would she cope with a large 4 bed house anymore. Her 1 bed flat is ideal