MCCarthy Stone- what's your view?

[Flyhigher]

Elderly parents in law thinking of a McCarthy Stone place. What do you think?

Is it good or bad? Are they financially worth it?
Do you lose money?

I've heard that the services go downhill rapidly (and the service charge goes up hill rapidly) once all the units have been sold.

I have heard of issues with buildings not being fixed,.or staff with no suitable qualifications or checks.

Those bits would worry me more than any inheritance impacts (I hope my parents will enjoy their wealth and use it to provide a good standard of life )

You just need to properly research and understand the terms of the lease/contract, management charges, service fees, etc. For some people, it works very well as it suits what they need. The main problems I think are where people don't really understand all the formalities/contracts etc. I've known people who are happy and sold without making a loss. Others have felt trapped and made a loss. As others have said, a lot depends on the location etc.

Personally, I'm looking into buying one, already viewed a few, got all the contracts/leases etc which I've gone through with a fine toothed comb. I'm happy with their charges/fees for what they cover. I've also researched selling prices etc of those that have been resold recently to gauge what they sell for.

I really think it's something you have to go in with your eyes wide open and not assume it's all the same as buying a "normal" house/flat.

Looked into these

Huge price to buy brand new
Still have to pay utility bills
Leasehold have to pay service charges
Are under 60s allowed to stay over / visit ?
Unable to rent out if empty
Sell at a huge loss

There are other options

There’s a lot of mis-information here ..

1. The flats were perfect for an elderly aunt, yes the service charge was expensive, but she could afford it and it gave her and us peace of mind when she was living many hours away. It was how she wanted to spend her money. The flats are lovely, the support excellent.

2. Full rate service charge is payable even if the flat is empty. It can be deferred during probate applications but then becomes payable until the flat is sold.

3. if you market via MS then you can defer the charge to be taken out of sales proceeds , as you can if selling via another agent and you prove the estate doesn't have money.

4. You can sell via local agents

5. Resales depend on the age of the flat / location etc Flats can be difficult to sell but remember that means lower pricing and a bargain for purchasers ! If you’re buying at £50k less than new that’s years worth of fees in your pocket to balance it out.

6. You can rent out flats (I think MS has to approve the renter in some way, that may just be age.

7. Think about whether to leave beneficiaries the asset or to instruct it should be sold . They each had pros and cons

8. If you’d like a flat in the NW, pm me - I can do you a great deal! 😁

I am in the process of buying/selling at the moment and as a matter of curiosity I looked at the Mcarthy Stone Flats in my target area. (My late Mum had one and was a right nightmare to sell). There is one on the market which has been on for 4 years and they have taken off £150k so now selling for £200K. The killer is the service charge which is £10K a year. It's one of those with cafe facilities. Sheltered housing does have a place but these places are to be avoided.

My friend's mum had one some years ago, after she died it took over two years to finally sell it and within that two years, she still had to continue to pay all the charges. It was a nightmare for her.

I've decided that if I need to leave my house due to ageing and/or health issues, I would rent somewhere in sheltered housing, certainly not buy anything like McCarthy Stone and leave a millstone round the neck of whoever inherits it.

The thing is, if you’ve had a comfortable middle class life in your own home, surrounded by like minded people do you really want to spend your last years in a housing association property? I say that in the nicest possible way…but I just don’t think many would. I certainly wouldn’t.

Since I posted a message yesterday, there seems to have a fair amount of activity on this thread. I would like to offer a couple more comments:
McCarthyStone service charges are on the estate not the beneficiaries. However the system is so constructed that they can empty the WHOLE estate to the last penny. One effect of this is that buyers non-existent (we have averaged no more than a couple of viewings per year for 4 yearsand have only been able to rent it out for 14 months out of 50+ and then at a rent just enough to cover costs. Please read my original post-the loss is now heading towards 100% and our case is not an isolated case.

PLEASE TO REPEAT: IF YOU, OR ANYONE YOU KNOW, IS IN A SIMILAR SITUATION, VISIT OR WRITE TO YOUR MP. McCARTHYSTONE PERPETRATE THE LIE THAT THESE ARE ISOLATED INCIDENTS. THE SOONER THAT MYTH IS DISCREDITED, THE SOONER THE GOVERNMENT STEPS IN.

PS. The head of ARCO (The Association of Retirement Community Operators) Michael Voges has stated publicly stated that new regulation is needed to restore trust in the sector.

Yes I agree, surely it's about quality of life when the person who lives there is alive? Wrt service charges,there are flats with SC that still have to be paid while waiting to sell and the same with bills, they get charged to the person's estate.

@Idontgiveagriffindamn my view is don’t ever buy new- and make sure you leave enough in cash to cover off 3 or 4 years service charge and be aware your family might get peanuts for it ! Lifestyle wise though would suit many— personally I would rent them ( not cheap at all) bank your cash and the interest may well cover off the rent . Anyone with £300,000 plus in liquid assets would be better renting and banking the cash -

A relative was offered FREE moving & packing service by MC&Sif they bought one of their new flats

Luckily they chose a option

Apologies
Above should say
Free moving services if they bought a very expensive MC&S flat

They did not buy & chose a different option

Brand new MC& S £300 k plus

Not new MC& S £100 k or less

Within just a few miles in the same area

Quote from an article in The Times:
"The largest single loss was of £326,000 on a flat in St Albans, which fell from £470,000 in 2017 to £135,000 in 2023 — a loss of £1,000 a week. It would have been cheaper for the elderly owner to have stayed at the Hilton."

And yet still cheaper than a decent quality care home :)

Most of our HA properties like this are one bedroom, rather than the two bedrooms you get in the private (re-sale) market for flats similar to MS ones.

My parents are in the process of buying one as they need / want the extra support you get, but certainly don't need a care home. They're really looking forward to it as the development is lovely, and right in the town centre / near all amenities and sea front. They'll both have a much better quality of life.

There's a steady stream of sales of the properties, and they're not spending anywhere near as much as some buyers have in the past on them. My sister and I are well award of the potential issues with selling etc, but we just want them to have the best quality of life possible. If that means there's nothing left to inherit, then so be it.

@NoWordForFluffy I think that’s the attitude I have - get at the right price, bank some cash and make sure there’s enough at any stage to cover off a few years service charges at minimum. Another option is that some of the over 55 park home developments can be very nice too for anyone who has a ‘flat’ aversion - what you won’t get though is any ‘care’ aspects that are needed.

havent read every message but would echo what I’ve seen about them being (potentially) great for the person living in them. Not cheap and potentially a headache to sell by the family afterwards but my MIL is having a great time living there and has made lots friends. Theres a restaurant, gym, library, loads of clubs and associations to join. There’s no house maintenance/admin for her to sort out (or for us to do) so we can concentrate on spending quality time with her (very unlike my relationship with my own dm which has become me being basically her admin asssistabt/handywoman) So if and when I’m in a similar position I would definitely go for retirement flat if I can afford it.

You have to be careful with park homes as well, re how many months you can occupy per year, and if there's a maximum age of the home before it needs replacing. It's another housing minefield.

Ultimately, aging can cost money, in relation to suitable housing and / or care. All I know is that our parents are really excited to live there, which is all that matters to us right now.

Nail on the head. As long as you do "due diligence" and go in with your eyes open, then they basically do what they say on the tin. The idea of being free from the "Life admin" of house/garden maintenance, home repairs, etc is worth it for me, not just for the cost but also not having the hassle of having to deal with tradesmen etc.

(Though I must say I do quite like the idea of "living" in hotels as mentioned by a PP, instead of a flat so I could have some meals made for me, laundry and cleaning done for me etc.) I had pondered living on cruise ships, but I suppose living in hotels is an alternative.

But ultimately, the proceeds of my house and savings would eventually run out leaving nothing for our son to inherit, whereas with a McCarthy & Stone at least there'll be something, even if the flat makes a loss on sale, unless I ended up in a care home for a long period.

With both my parent's house and OH's parent's house, yes, we inherited their homes in full, but they'd depreciated in value over the last few years because our respective parent's lost the ability to look after them, maintain them, clean them, etc., couldn't organise their own tradesmen and we were too stressed dealing with dementia and other illnesses to do it for them, so eventually sold at undervalue because of the extent of work needed. So even staying in your own home doesn't guarantee the house remains an appreciating asset!

I think they need to see the money as "spent" rather than invested, as they might have done in their house, but they can provide the perfect lifestyle for older people

@Badbadbunny I think that’s an important point - I often think it’s those inheriting who are more anxious due to poor resale value and the ongoing risk of service charges for years - I do think any elderly person doing this needs to be aware of having decent cash or insurance assets too to allow for these aspects and not leave as a financial burden . Same would apply too in a standard flat as well that struggles to sell - it’s not just over 55 flats - personally I think all the over 55 developers should bring in an upfront premium equivalent to 2 years service charge at purchase point - and after that it stops - I also think owners should be able to rent out provided tenant fits the usual over55 development criteria.

One cannot assume that a M&S flat is the final living space. They are not care homes. DM became very ill after a few short years in one and we needed the cash for a care home. The issue was not about inheritance.

Didn’t Margaret Thatcher spend her later years living in The Ritz, after Dennis died? There’s definitely an appeal…though I think I’d prefer Claridges ;)

I agree that investing all one’s capital in one is foolish…but for those who buy one with just part, allowing a reasonable sum for a care home later I think they have their place.