MCCarthy Stone- what's your view?

[Flyhigher]

Elderly parents in law thinking of a McCarthy Stone place. What do you think?

Is it good or bad? Are they financially worth it?
Do you lose money?

They're really good for someone who needs quite a bit of support but does not need a nursing home.

I don’t know about mcarthy stone but even if my parent could afford to buy I would definitely encourage them to rent sheltered housing rather than buy. What happens if further down the line they need more care? Who pays the service charges ( until it’s sold ,which could take ages) while they are paying carehome fees etc. ?

My mum lives in one and it’s transformed her life for the better. It’s also really good quality and she loves it.
that’s what matters to me I don’t care if I sell it for a pound given the impact it’s had on her life.

That is so nice to read, your mum benefitting so much and you caring more about that than the resale value.

True, it's still a racket though.

If the prospective resident really wants to be part of a community, then this can be the perfect arrangement.

But if they'd rather keep their existing friends/activities, it might not be for them. Also, it's (usually) possible to buy in care to your own home as lower cost than their care packages, and you get greater opportunity to choose someone you find congenial as an individual, rather than having whoever M&S employ.

Watch out for extra charges for parking (definitely cars, and I think there are rules about mobility scooters too)

Plus they can be a real hassle to sell, charges continue whilst you're waiting to sell, and the company takes a small cut on the sale (as well as being able to veto prospective buyers). That can all be worth it if it gives the person the life they want.

But I'd urge them to have a careful think about what it is that they want, and all the ways they could have it. An ordinary ground floor flat might be just as suitable for someone who doesn't want the "ready-made" community of similarly-aged people.

I plan to move to one when I am older as I have absolutely no family. I hope it will provide some support and companionship. Unlike others though, I don't care what happens after my death as I have nobody to leave anything to.

It’s generally been good for my parents - some issues with the mandated water heaters which keep breaking and I think the building manager is broadly useless but my parents like her. The community/social aspects have been great and it has a guest room you can book which makes it easy to visit them.

I accept that we will sell at a loss when they die, but that’s fine. It’s been a good solution for the last 10 years.

But you may care when you have to move to a cheaper care home because you can’t sell the M&S flat that no longer meets your needs.

It’s not necessarily about relatives being upset their inheritance is going in service fees while they struggle to sell, it’s more likely relatives worrying about paying for the care their still-living relative now needs.

I'm an older people's social worker and have worked with many people who live in them.

I've told my mum not to touch them with a barge pole

This, took forever to sell and we had to keep paying the service charges.

I have heard that their sales tactics are rather underhand.
but mostly they can be a nightmare to sell on. We’re currently selling a retirement apartment (not MS) for an elderly resident who passed away and it’s a nightmare with the ongoing service charges. 2 years and counting.

The charges would have been to the estate, not to your friend.

Nightmare to sell and as others have said the 'estate' cops the ground rent and service charges until sold. First Port also charge a ridiculous amount for the Buyers Pack and they have to vet potential purchasers. On my late Mum's development people who brought at the very beginning lost a good 200K when they were sold and got probate. Avoid and only purchase if they are not new as the price will be rock bottom. Any shiny new flats are a complete rip off.

Luckily I would have sufficient funds for both (care home fees and an unsold retirement property).

Our plan is to move into something similar as from what we’ve seen they can be great as you say for support and companionship and they’re often in town centres near activities. Our plan is to rent one if we can ( probably rent our own house out in the beginning ) just so we can leave our options open and we don’t need to worry about bullding maintenance etc. We live in a country with laws that protect renters better than in the uk though.

Why is that?

I’m with you, and since my husband died it’s started to form part of my plans. I look at it as advance rent rather than a property investment.

If £500k gets me somewhere to live with a cafe / bistro on-site and wardens to make sure everything’s okay, and I move in at 70 and stay for 15 years that’s only £2,750 a month for somewhere nice to live, albeit with a service charge as well. But, no gardener or maintenance to pay for. Which I think balances out!

£500k put aside at the same time is worth over £1m in 15 years (@ 6% return) which should pay for another 5 or 10 years of quality care in a decent care home. And if I deteriorate quicker or last longer then there’ll always be enough left over for a trip to Switzerland ;)

Those who suggest renting make a very good point, but I do t want to be at the mercy / whim of a landlord when I’m in my 70s/80s - I want the security of knowing I have a home. And I suspect over a 15 year term
it’d cost more to rent than buy.

@MereDintofPandiculation because the service charges are very high and, as others have said, they can be a nightmare to sell. If you need to move from your MS flat into a care home, your council (in England) would deem you to be a self funder as you have an asset worth more than £23,250. So they won't fund your care home, but if you can't sell the flat, you're stuck. My mum doesn't have enough in savings to fund more than about a year in a care home. I know some families who have taken 3 years to sell their parents flat or who have had to accept a ridiculously low offer in order to release the money.

That very well expresses what I've been trying to say in this thread. It's not all about "greedy relatives" being upset that their inheritance is reduced because they have to sell at a loss.

Since you said you'd worked with people living in them, I wondered whether you had seen other disadvantages. other than the ones we've recognised about being difficult to sell and incurring sky high charges while you're trying to sell. Disadvantages while the resident was still living there.

They aren't all difficult to sell. I guess it's like any property some will be more popular than others. My old neighbours bought one, after a couple of years they wanted to move close to family and put it on the market and sold it quickly. It was a nice block in a very convenient place, close to the beach, shops, buses. They always sell fast there.

Though councils do have a well established process for situations where a persons only asset is a property, which will almost alway take longer than the 12 week capital disregard to sell. And that’s to lend the person requiring the care home fees to be paid the money / pay the care home directly, with a charge secured on the property so they get their money in the end. If you have a cheap home and expensive fees the money might run out pretty rapidly, but that’s the case whether you can sell or not.

I suspect that MS and others have made sure their charge for fees ranks higher than anyone else’s, though whether they can do that against a council I do not know. On the right side, not many of us actually end up in a care home, so I wouldn’t panic / scaremonger unnecessarily!

According to the latest census (which might be distorted by COVID) it’s less than 1 in 5 of women over 90. And one in 25 of women between 80 and 84

I think there are financial pitfalls and you have to see the money as "spent" rather than invested, but if it provides the lifestyle elderly parents want and need, I'd be happy with that.

Rent one - late relative did and it was the best thing for her.

Never buy new. Maybe consider one second hand. Youy need to be either 60 plus or 70 plus to buy/rent one hence the difficulty selling.

She had a lovely development where the staff churn was very low. My observations are that people tend to move into them far too late i.e well into their 80's. They arent a care home and wont pick you up if you fall. The service charge was included in the rent so no issue when she had to move out (into a care home and passed away soon after).

Wouldn’t buy a new one. But DM is in one, which had been owned previously. They seem to sell reasonably well and have kept their value in the last few years. Her service charge isn’t that high and they can be rented. You can sell them through a normal estate agent and not via MS.