I blame Escape to the Country!

[Mini712]

Is anyone else in the same situation?

My parents retired 12 years ago & decided to retire to Dorset. At the time, I was pretty upset that they were moving away from me and my young family but accepted their decision.
During those 12 years they have had an amazing retirement, living in a beautiful part of the country and travelling the world with fancy holidays & cruises galore! But more recently their health has started to fail so they can’t do as much anymore and Mum in particular is feeling a bit isolated which as meant they now want to see us more. They come and stay with us regularly(usually for at least a week!) every other month but we live 3 hours away so we can’t just pop in for a cup of tea.
I am now feeling guilty as I don’t want them to feel lonely but also resentment as it wasn’t me that moved in the first place!
Last saw them 2 weeks ago when they stayed with us for a week but now getting pressure from Mum to see them over Easter. Should I cave in and see them even though I had planned to spend Easter with hubby & sons?

By the way I have a brother but he rarely calls them, let alone visits or has them to stay

Any thoughts would be appreciated ❤️

@Manthide I agree that that will be a big factor.

My brother would have been a great help with our dp if they need it when they are older (early 80s) as he was very close to them but he sadly died 2 weeks ago. I now have to look to the future as an only child. I live quite close to them but was hoping to move nearer to one of my older dd when dd3 leaves home in a couple of years.

So sorry @Manthide - how sad for you all. Wishing you all the best 💐

Well exactly. My DH was thinking of offering to regularly mow the lawn of our new neighbour (female 40s,) as her lawn was getting high, and she couldn't seem to keep on top of it. He also said I could offer to take the woman across the roads kids to nursery when her workplace wanted her to start at 8.30am instead of 9am.

He also said I could offer to weed and trim and neaten the garden of the elderly lady 2 doors up who was struggling to find a gardener. (He knows I enjoy my garden, but I am not doing anyone else's!)

I said 'fuck that for a game of soldiers' to all 3 suggestions. I will help anyone in an emergency, but I am NOT going to offer to be anyone's 'regular help.' No. WAY. And neither are YOU!'

I have mentioned this before, but basically some years ago when my 2 DC were infant school age, I used to visit an elderly great aunt. (My Grandad's brother's wife. Grandad's brother died in the early 1990s.) No-one in the family could be arsed with her except me, including her own 2 middle aged adult sons who lived 30-ish miles away...) I would take her cakes and magazines and sit with her for hours. (I visited twice a month, sometimes with the DC, sometimes just me.)

She went into hospital for a big op, and was in there for 3 weeks. I visited 6 or 7 times. (I lived 20-25 miles away.) A few days before she was due to be released, the Staff Nurse cornered me, and basically told me she needs to be picked up at midday on Friday, and will need full time care for 2-3 months, and hopes she can have her own room at my house.

I said 'whaaaa?' and was aghast. They were expecting her to come live with me! I said 'I can't look after her. I have 2 small children, I have a job, and I have just 2 bedrooms. I can't look after her. What about her 2 sons?' The Nurse said 'they are very busy men, far too busy with careers, and they're men. You're a woman, and a mum, so of course we're looking to you.'

Long story short, I put my foot down and said 'no way.' The nurse looked disgusted with me and walked off... My great aunt never spoke to me again. She put the phone down any time I rang her. I tried half a dozen times before giving up. I don't know what the nurse said to her, but she disowned me. It was a case of 'no good deed goes unpunished.'

But yeah tr;dr because I had shown a degree of interest and caring, it was assumed I would take her in and be her carer! A 30-something young mother with 2 small children, a small home, and a job! AND my own pension age parents who I was already doing stuff for. (Some housework and bits of garden help, and shopping! And running them around now and again.) Also, where the fuck would she even have slept? And what about my children? They were still small, and young, and needed me.

Bloody ludicrous. And this was over 20 years ago. I could imagine it being the same now, even if it was just a neighbour. My relationship to this great aunt was not close kin. She was not even a blood relative. She was my great uncle's wife who he had been married to for 15 years before he died. (The father of her 2 sons had died some years before when the boys were young adults.) Yet the hospital was trying to shove her care on me, and have me take her to live with me and my family!

@SabreIsMyFave they are looking for the easy route which involves least involvement from the hospital and/or Social Services.

A lot of pressure is put on female relatives because I suspect it is known we are more likely to cave. Less pressure is put on men because it is believed they are less likely to cave.

Of course there is a lot of sexism in play. A son isn't considered appropriate to provide intimate care for a female relative. Though it is considered perfectly acceptable for a daughter to provide the same care for male relatives.

DB & DM are thinking about pooling resources so that they can buy a house in a town they both think is 'naicer' than the one they both live in now.

If it becomes more than pie in the sky I will make sure DB is clear that this will mean he will have to be the one to provide care or try to get Social Services involved. I will not be carrying the can for their hare brained scheme.

I wouldn't assume that the request was being driven by your relative - its highly likely IME that it was "assumed" and pushed by staff. I've had exactly the same experience, especially during Covid when family were not allowed to visit. It was absolutely not coming from the patient who had been told by staff that C8 wanted them to stay and live with us (who lived on the other side of the country)
Fortunately the patient was fully compos and I was able to sort it out but only after threatening the hospital with action as the patients legal PoA. Then suddenly the consultant who had been too busy to talk to me all week was on the phone within 15 minutes insisting it was all a misunderstanding by the patient and that the records had an error and this was not her responsibility - it was admin. Because apparently the six figure salary consultant wasn't responsible for patients in her care or the department she was paid to run - it was the minimum wage ward admin who actually helped me sort it out and let enough drop to make it clear this was a strategy to boot elderly people out by whatever means available.

@SabreIsMyFave thats a sad, awful kind of story, your Gt Aunt behaved badly I’m afraid. Reminds me of my own story. I occasionally visit an elderly disabled person not too far away from me. On her birthday, visiting her and bringing a nice present, making tea etc, she quite deliberately I believe did not offer me any of her birthday cake, though she mentioned how it had been made for her and other visitors had clearly had several slices! Earlier on she had ignored my text and seemed to renege on the invitation she had made a few days earlier .

I also do sometimes come across the old “no good deed goes unpunished” experience, and it
can be a little galling. I was also was reminded that elderly or disabled people can be narcissistic!!

I will still visit her a few times a year. But there will be no more birthdays celebrations or big presents. Once bitten ….

just seen @C8H10N4O2 ‘s other possible explanation too.

I tire of the word boundaries that everyone uses these days, but it is a necessary sometimes it seems, as some people will take advantage unfortunately.

Reiterating what an interesting & useful discussion this is. In policy circles there is very much a drive towards seeing community & neighbourliness as the solution to the crisis in care.

i get some of it which is about people generally are far better ageing in a familiar place in an area they know with people they know. Where I live is very big on community & im quite happy to pick up some shopping or DH will go the odd bit of heavy lifting for neighbours who are elderly and temporarily incapacitated. However like lots of people on
tjis thread that doesn’t mean I’m suddenly ok to be viewed as someone’s permanent care & support

Friend volunteered on a visit the elderly scheme. They visited someone who's family wasn't around much. When the family realised someone was visiting, greed kicked in and they got worried about their inheritance, I think because they thought their elderly relative might leave some money to my friend, I don't think that would have happened. They accused friend for trying to get money, when they weren't. It put her off ever volunteering in anything like that again. No good deed goes unpunished. I'd never volunteer for anything like that, after hearing her experience.

My neighbours wanted the rest of the street to help with an elderly man who had gone into a care home then returned as he didn't like it. They were surprised that no one wanted to help, but it was after covid, no one wanted to pass on covid via their school age kids and everyone was either working or looking after their own families

Fair enough now. But when you reach the age that you can’t be left alone, whose life is going to be surrendered to live with you and care for you?

@Manthide I hope you're ok. My sibling also died in her 50s just before my DF's health took a turn for the worse. I really wouldn't make any big decisions now about where to move in the future - it will all feel so raw.

Look after yourself - I ended up having a breakdown because of my sister dying and feeling like I had to run round after my parents because of it.

Perhaps she’d prefer her own life to be surrendered?

I know this isn’t real life, but …

Off topic, but I love these old character actors and actresses, so am looking forward to watching that video with Thora Hird when I get hone. Thira Hird also put in an excellent performance in the 1962 film “A Kind of Loving” with Alan Bates.

One of my friends got caught out! She was between jobs and offered to take an elderly woman from church to the hospital. She meant literally drive her to the hospital and drop her off.

She ended up driving her there, going in with her, had to pay for parking (woman seemed to have no idea about parking charges and friend not very assertive!), wait for ages. Eventually re-emerged. Woman then said she'd like to treat her to a cup of tea as a thank you, so ended up driving her to the garden centre cafe!

So elderly woman got a nice day out, trip to her favourite garden centre and a companion for the day, friend ended up out of pocket (parking charges) and lost an entire day when she was going to be applying for jobs!

That's why I'm very very wary of getting over-involved with the elderly neighbours. They did sound us out about hospital trips when we moved in and were visibly disappointed when I said I worked full time!

cba To watch half hour vid, thought it was going to be a clip. But to answer your point, no one gets to that age and thinks, oh I’ll top myself now to avoid going into a home. People around will be making sacrifices to help and support. You don’t realise till you’re in the situation.

All those original Talking Heads were brilliant. I also particularly remember Patricia Routledge (Hyacinth Bucket) as the ‘Lady of Letters’ (endlessly watching neighbours and writing ‘poison pen’ letters.

Yes, but we can all add a paragraph to our Health and Welfare Powers of Attorney, to state that in x and y circumstances, we emphatically do not want any life-saving or life-prolonging treatment.

A DNR only covers resuscitation, so not the same at all.

IMO there is far too much ‘striving to keep alive’ but unless the person, or their relatives on their behalf, speak out, the default is so often to keep people going, no matter what. Though from all I’ve ever heard, it’s often the relatives who insist on it. Medics are naturally very wary of Daily Mail type headlines - ‘Callous doctors wanted Mum to die!’

”CBA” - what a rude and churlish response. The video was for others who may be interested btw. All Meredint was doing was gently offering a different or alternative view - we are not all the same - which is clear in her subtitle.

You can feel “actually, I’m not going to make this effort to stay alive” or “I’m not going to cease this risky behaviour because what’s the future like anyway?”. And people do.

Exactly

It's absolutely ridiculous to buy a big house with a big garden a long way from family and then expect family to help out

Beds made so lie on it

Or rectify the error and sell up

@C8H10N4O2

I wouldn't assume that the request was being driven by your relative - its highly likely IME that it was "assumed" and pushed by staff. I've had exactly the same experience, especially during Covid when family were not allowed to visit. It was absolutely not coming from the patient who had been told by staff that C8 wanted them to stay and live with us (who lived on the other side of the country)

I do believe that the Staff very likely push this kind of thing - younger (FEMALE) family members taking in elderly extended family members, if they show a shred of care of thoughtfulness. But I still don't understand why my great aunt disowned me/ghosted me. (Directly after the Staff Nurse said my aunt will need full time care for 2-3 months and needs to live with me (and I said no.)

As I said, the Staff Nurse looked at me like I was a piece of shit when I said 'no, I can't. I only have 2 bedrooms, I work, and I have 2 little children, and 2 senior age parents...' So I do wonder what she reported back to my aunt. Must be have been horrific for her to ghost me.

I reckon it was something along the lines of 'Mrs Jones, we have asked your great-niece to help you and look after you, but it seems she can't be bothered, so she clearly doesn't give a shiny shit about you.' Something like that......... Must have been pretty bad - and negative.

Also, my great aunt had 2 grown sons with homes - with spare rooms, but of course they couldn't ask them; they were MEN with terribly hectic lives, and big important jobs!

@GnomeDePlume · Yesterday 07:47

@SabreIsMyFave they are looking for the easy route which involves least involvement from the hospital and/or Social Services.

A lot of pressure is put on female relatives because I suspect it is known we are more likely to cave. Less pressure is put on men because it is believed they are less likely to cave.

Of course there is a lot of sexism in play. A son isn't considered appropriate to provide intimate care for a female relative. Though it is considered perfectly acceptable for a daughter to provide the same care for male relatives.

YES to this! It really annoys me how women are always the default carer. Does my head in!

@MereDintofPandiculation Thanks for that link to that show with Thora Hird! I will look at that later.

How long was it since the great aunt had worked herself?

I've found with my DM that, partly she's become considerably more selfish and insular as she's aged, because she's very focussed on her own aches and pains and what her neighbours are doing. She has no idea what I spend my time doing, what I do at work, what my commute is like etc, she just isn't interested. She does assume I have far more free time and flexibility than I do though!

And her working life was so different to mine now. She did things like shop for an elderly relative at lunchtime and drop it off. I often end up eating my lunch in a meeting! She was also offered far more flexibility at work to support elderly relatives - more annual leave, lots of flexibility around timekeeping, no work outside working hours, extraordinarily generous compassionate leave.

My experience is that they lose awareness of any bigger picture - the reality of childcare commitments, FT work, commuting, even the size of houses(!) - because they become so focussed on their own situation.

Where is the clause in the law that instructs the system to stop extending life by medical intervention? I am 67 and in good health now but I don't want to live a trailing fade after the age of 75. I would rather allow my DC to make their lives the best lives instead of worrying about me. If I am ill, the sooner the end comes the better. Switch me off.