My Aunt wants me to take on lasting power of attorney - I don’t want to

[WeekinWeekOut]

She’s 84, lives alone, has no children. She’s mainly in good health but has some blood pressure issues.
I’ve always got on with her ok, but she lives hundreds of miles away and I see her once every couple of years for a day or two. We go for lunches or the theatre and then say goodbye and communicate sporadically for months at a time.
I’ve got 3 teenage kids and a full time job. I’m looking forward to some me time in a few years when I can retire. I don’t want to end up in a position where I’m having to deal with blown over fences or water bills in a house hundreds of miles away, let alone taking on sorting out the intimate care for a woman I consider fundamentally as pleasant but not close. She’s not really asked me - more told me that there is no other option and presented it as a non discussion matter that she has always assumed I knew I would have do. How much work is involved and an I going to spend a lot of time on motorways? Am I blowing this out of proportion? I want to say no but I don’t know how. I feel sick just thinking about it.

This reminds me that I must talk to my mum about my role as will executor, and make sure POA etc is set up.

I think some of these are getting mixed up between what you're actually responsible for with POA and what you've chosen to do, probably for a parent or close relative (and you might not be aware you chose it as it probably wasn't presented as a choice!).

You don't need to take them to medical appointments or organise the dentist or haircuts. I haven't for my very distant relative. She chose to go into a home whilst she still had capacity and now she doesn't the home organise all of that. They send a carer with her to appointments or to A&E - this is charged for. They organise anything "extra" and it then just gets billed monthly. They can also organise buying of toiletries (I think a carer probably goes and buys them and is then reimbursed). Or you can order from Boots online and get them delivered.

She chose a home near to friends so they are the ones who visit and who will buy things like clothes, if needed. The home will label them, again this is charged for. The friends then report back about how she is as I haven't seen her for years.

I wouldn't have got involved if she'd still got her house full of stuff etc but all of that was dealt with before she lost capacity. The crucial thing is that she had the money to be able to afford to go into a home when she chose and had enough foresight to be able to plan ahead and not want to land it all on a very distant relative.

You can get a solicitor to handle the financial POA and this might be a sensible solution in her situation. It's difficult for them as it means all their possessions will probably be dealt with by house clearance instead of lovingly item by item [what the person thinks will happen if relative does it!].

Health POA is much less onerous. You just need to be clear what their wishes are in regards to treatment, DNR etc. That meant a conversation ages ago about how brutal resuscitation is. There's no need to actually go to medical appointments etc.

This is what I was getting at. If it’s possible for a solicitor / local authority to fulfil the responsibilities of having POA, it would suggest that a lot of what posters on here are doing goes way beyond that and that these things are not part and parcel of having POA.

This maybe isn't the place for it, but it is sort of on topic.

I know I have financial POA and now have set up access to DPS main banking account on the advice of a friend who said it was better to have it in place before you needed it.

But I don't know if we would need a separate POA for health wishes and if that would need to go through a solicitor again?

Yes, they are two separate LPAs. My mother got both of hers organised at the same time.

As far as I know, POA can be split into personal and financial. You can appoint someone to have a say over medical and health decisions and someone else (a solicitor) to be responsible for financial decisions.

Obviously it only kicks in if she becomes incapacitated. It sounds like she has no one else in her life and perhaps she wants a smidge of security knowing that if she's really ill, someone who cares will make decisions on her behalf.

You don't need to go through a solicitor to set up poa! You can do it yourself via a simple form on gov.uk. It costs £82 for you to fill in the same form that a solicitor will charge you for. It really is very straightforward - just follow the instructions carefully as they will return it if you miss out a signature - it has to be signed in several places

(The old EPAs used to have to be done via a solicitor, I believe, and many people have been caught out by not knowing that LPAs can be applied for directly. Of course, a solicitor will fill out the form for you, if you want to pay them to do it, but there is no need . .

Yes apologies got role of executor a bit muddled up you are quite right she was the executor of will.

But the example of person managing full time carers phone calls and frequent necessary visits was for health poa. Thanks Rhubarb for clearing confusion.

Um. Unpopular view here maybe, but isn’t she family and don’t we all have a societal duty to look after each other if we can. Just because it’s a PITA to take on POA and you are not close, does not mean it’s not the right thing to do.

I've not RTFT but from what DH and I have experienced being POA for parents and an aunt, the amount of work can range between absolutely nothing (the person dies without having needed any poa help) and a lot.

In your position I'd say no because it might be impossible for you to fulfil the duties due to your other commitments and location. DH had poa for an aunt at the other end of the country, fortunately jointly with another nephew - he dropped it because he had some health issues and knew from what he'd had to do for his mum that he simply wouldn't have been able to do a good job, it would not have been in the aunt's best interest for him to have the poa just a complication.

If there's no family member who can adequately do this she needs to find professional help as others have said. This is about what's in her best interests as well as yours.

It's the 'if you can' which is the issue here.
In the OPs position I would say really she can't.

PofA for finances is not a caring duty - they do not have to make appointments, shopping and all that - they just make sure the bills are paid.

So you can! I think it’s quite a palaver though, so no wonder people use solicitors (at great expense).

But anyone worried about what being an attorney entails should look it up on this site. It’s very clear.

It would need to be executed by you to be valid.

They’re two separate PoAs. Ie they are split, not they can be split.

If it’s true that a solicitor can take this role on and fulfill the requirements, then are all the posters here, who are doing all these caring duties ‘because they have POA’ interpreting their obligations incorrectly? Yes.

They are also responsible for the sale of any property or other financial assets. It's less onerous than the personal and health one (the one my DM got lumbered with), but it helps if you are someone with financial know-how. My DM's friend got another friend, who was a financial advisor, to do the financial part. Very wise as my DM is pretty clueless!

Read up about what it says about POA on the govt website.
www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney

It's about making decisions on behalf of the person once they cannot do that for themselves. There's nothing about taking them to the dentist, doing their shopping or calling plumbers!

Obviously if you have gradually become responsible for things like shopping, meals or organising carers it becomes more difficult to take a step back. Particularly for someone you love or who is close by. And I imagine it's a lot harder if the person doesn't have much money and is dependent on SS funding for care packages as these inevitably seem to involve "someone else" being available to check the house is OK, the carers have chucked the mouldy food out etc.

And there's no need to visit if you have health POA, unless you want to!

It's about making decisions so the medical staff know what the person would have wanted in terms of treatment, resuscitation etc.

The POA doesn't mean you have to take them to the appointments!

If the person is under a Deprivation of Liberty order then someone has to visit at least monthly to check they are OK and the home is doing what they're meant to, but that doesn't have to be the holder of POA, it can be delegated to someone else or a solicitor (who would charge).

And there's no need to visit if you have health POA, unless you want to!

This really depends on the person's needs. A lot can be done by phone - carers, SW, nursing home, GP, etc., but if you need to look round care homes, for instance, you need to be there. And if a person is living alone and in poor health and things are going wrong then personal visits may well be necessary.

That is choice though. Many people, particularly for a loved and close relative, would want to do that, but it isn't compulsory and in some instances isn't practical.

I have never been to the care home my elderly relative is in - it was chosen by SS when the dementia became too severe for the first home. I don't have the time/availability to visit a load of care homes a long way away. That's the decision my relative made when she chose an initial home near her friends rather than me. It means she gets visitors so I think it was her right choice. I know they take good care of her because her friends report back. The six monthly review with SW can be done over the phone or Zoom.

And someone living alone in poor health it's your choice to visit. If it's a long way away though you can ring SS and tell them there is no one to visit and check on the person.

Some of this will sound brutal, but we have to be realistic. I have a demanding FT job, young child, DH with health problems and four elderlies with POA, although only one of those is currently active. I cannot be backwards and forwards to a long distance away but I can manage bank accounts and represent their views for health decisions.

I was given power of attorney by one of my parents for health about 20 years ago there was no discussion it was just done without my prior knowledge and presented to me as job done. - that would not be possible or valid. When I organized my PofA, the attorneys had to sign.

I did it myself and the website takes you through the process in great detail. It is not difficult - you just need to be very organised, as things need to be signed in the correct order. When I had cause to use ours for my late OH there was no problem - it was all accepted without question.

Accepting PofA does not put someone in the role of carer in any way. It simply means that if the person becomes mentally incapable of making their own decisions/taking actions about their finances or health and welfare, then you do it for them. So for instance you might finish up paying bills online, looking after their bank account, ringing the local SS to organise care, organizing standing orders for payment to SS etc. You are not there scrubbing floors! - and as long as your aunt has mental capacity there is nothing to do at all.

I'm doing it for my my mum but I certainly wouldn't do it for anyone else.

Nicely put.

I am reading this thread as an aunt with no kids/spouse, only nieces. They are incredibly dear to me. I don't know what the future will hold, other than fear and loneliness as you say, but I would hate for them to be posting 'nah, can't be bothered, just leave them to it' type responses in a thread in 30 years time. They don't live that close, nor will they, and I don't want them run ragged. But it would be nice if they were on my side and to advocate for me, as you say.