Hi,
I'm not sure this is the right board, my DM is in her 70s. It's not an AIBU so much as techniques/support I need!
I live a few hours away from DM so don't see her much. But when I do I find her very argumentative if that's the right word.
Eg if we're talking about car seats for my DC she'll say they never had car seats in her day and everyone was fine. But I know if I had said car seats are a waste of money, why do we even bother she'd be outraged we wouldn't get one.
Eg I gave my DC plain yogurt mixed with fruit but some spoonfuls were just yogurt, some had more fruit. She made a face and said that yogurt was awful stuff, how could baby even eat it.
Eg we were talking about baby names, not my DC , just general conversation. Say the name "Doris" came up. I said Doris is not very popular these days for babies. She said well she knows three old ladies called Doris.
I say I'm going to buy X for myself. She says well why would you not buy Y?
I know these examples sound petty but it's most of the time . And it's her tone is challenging. Then I feel if I reply "yes but your 3 Doris examples are not newborn babies, they're 80 years old" or "well DC seems to be eating this yogurt just fine" or "I'm buying X because I prefer it to Y" then I sound like I'm the one being argumentative. And it also leaves scope for another comment from DM like "well she might be eating that yogurt but I'm sure she'd prefer a strawberry one, the poor child"
So I sit like a plank and say very little which is awkward and unfortunate.
If she has visitors (eg neighbours) she then complains about them afterwards and rolls her eyes at them saying AB or C.
My siblings seem to manage but they can be argumentative themselves. I'm not sure what I'm asking - maybe techniques to handle this that would allow me not to sit like a statue? And to want to spend time there?
At the moment my DM does not need care but would like company but as time goes by I'm sure she'll need more.
Elderly parents
Argumentative mother - find it awkward to be around her
BlueberryBuffin · 18/02/2023 11:11
freckles20 · 19/03/2023 00:22
@schmalex / @Heartsoft is this the book? I've found a few with similar titles so wanted to check.
I am currently at my mum's house and staying the night at her request as a birthday present with DS and DH.
It has been a very hard evening and made me recognise just how unpleasant and difficult she is.
I'm hoping to download and listen to it in bed this evening.
Heartsoft · 19/03/2023 11:16
@freckles20 it is this one
www.amazon.co.uk/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21#:~:text=%22Lindsay%20C.,from%20having%20emotionally%20immature%20parents
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents
freckles20 · 19/03/2023 00:22
@schmalex / @Heartsoft is this the book? I've found a few with similar titles so wanted to check.
I am currently at my mum's house and staying the night at her request as a birthday present with DS and DH.
It has been a very hard evening and made me recognise just how unpleasant and difficult she is.
I'm hoping to download and listen to it in bed this evening.
Ttwinkletoes · 19/03/2023 06:29
Their behaviour reminds me of what MNers describe their DCs doing - Good as gold at school but dreadfully behaved at home.
So they just let all their grumpy annoyedness with the world out on to their daughters- probably don’t do it to sons. Because they are their DDs so they can treat them as they please and get away with it.
spelunky · 19/03/2023 05:59
OP, what does your DM have going on in the rest of her life?
My mum is a bit like this too, she leads quite a solitary life these days with not much going on for her. I sometimes wonder if she is just bored and living in quite an insular world, so in a way likes the drama of a disagreement.
It is frustrating when they don't have any insight into how draining it is.
S0upertrooper · 19/03/2023 06:52
I hear you OP! My late MIL was like this and I eventually stopped engaging and if I had to be in her company, stopped talking because everything I said, she contradicted. I think she was a very discontented woman as she picked fault with everything and everyone. Easier for me to disengage and go NC with MIL than you with DM but remember, it's her, not you.
Maybe just stop responding when she makes a dig?
freckles20 · 19/03/2023 16:41
Thanks @Heartsoft.
I downloaded it onto audible last night and listened to it as I was staying at mums which was very difficult.
The conversation over dinner was very difficult. I felt like a was walking a tightrope and at several points I made an accidental misstep and without warning mum totally flew off the handle, shouting in my face over the table.
DH was shocked and taken aback as he hasn't witnessed her being that angry. Unfortunately he didn't step in but withdrew and went quiet.
DS is 16 and I wish he hadn't witnessed it as he generally has a good relationship with my mum. I was so proud of him though as at one point he pointed out that she seemed deliberately confrontational, that she was the only one shouting, and that she seemed unwilling to listen to me. I could have hugged him. I told him that I was sorry he'd witnessed it, I hoped that he was ok and that he must never feel obliged to engage with her.
I (deliberately) haven't stayed at her home for years and last night was really difficult. I don't usually struggle with anxiety but I felt very anxious, I had flash backs, and felt very unsafe.
The memories which came back were very thought provoking as when I was a teenager I somehow managed to convince myself that my mum's behaviour hadn't affected me and that I was ok.
With the benefit of hindsight and understanding I now realise that I had endured way too much bullying, physical abuse and difficult behaviour to possibly be ok. I was desperately frightened of upsetting mum and lived on tenterhooks.
The book on audible was like a warm understanding hug through a mostly sleepless night.
@BlueberryBuffin it is a perfect Mother's Day present to yourself. I hope you find it helpful.
SchoolTripDrama · 19/03/2023 23:39
if we're talking about car seats for my DC she'll say they never had car seats in her day and everyone was fine.
Say "But they weren't though! Millions of children died! Kids & babies died every single day due to lack of car seats!"
Same answer but adjusted for whatever the subject matter.
I really hate it when previous generations say things like "We never had X in my day and everyone was fine" when in fact, everyone was NOT fine in the slightest!
Dear mum, you have loved me , taught me, guided me, cared for me, set me an example. So I'd like to be that mother in future Perhaps tone down “taught me” and “guided me” once DC are teenage or adult? Too easy to come over as “criticises everything I do” 
"Brenda" is angry at her mother's self centeredness. This can be understood in the context of anger being a common response in children who are "abandoned" by their parents (in studies in the 70s). Brenda's anger is therefore a natural response to an emotional injury I wonder if this can work the other way round too? In a “healthy” family, for 10 years your children are the most important people in your life except maybe your partner. Thirty years down the line, your children are still the most important people in your life, that never changes, and you may have lost your partner. But for your child the most important are their partner, their children, their dog, possibly their friends, and somewhere down the list you. Intellectually, you feel proud at your children being mature and independent. But emotionally, hasn’t there been abandonment too?
MereDintofPandiculation · 20/03/2023 09:51
Dear mum, you have loved me , taught me, guided me, cared for me, set me an example. So I'd like to be that mother in future Perhaps tone down “taught me” and “guided me” once DC are teenage or adult? Too easy to come over as “criticises everything I do”
"Brenda" is angry at her mother's self centeredness. This can be understood in the context of anger being a common response in children who are "abandoned" by their parents (in studies in the 70s). Brenda's anger is therefore a natural response to an emotional injury I wonder if this can work the other way round too? In a “healthy” family, for 10 years your children are the most important people in your life except maybe your partner. Thirty years down the line, your children are still the most important people in your life, that never changes, and you may have lost your partner. But for your child the most important are their partner, their children, their dog, possibly their friends, and somewhere down the list you. Intellectually, you feel proud at your children being mature and independent. But emotionally, hasn’t there been abandonment too?
BlueberryBuffin · 19/03/2023 21:50
I'm reading the book recommended above.
One bit has jumped out at me (among many,)
"Brenda" is angry at her mother's self centeredness. This can be understood in the context of anger being a common response in children who are "abandoned" by their parents (in studies in the 70s). Brenda's anger is therefore a natural response to an emotional injury, her mother's self centeredness/ lack of connection is an emotional abandonment.
This might explain why my mother's comments cause me to be annoyed (and not unnecessarily as I previously thought)
My mother’s like this. For all the reasons listed above - poor childhood, trauma, low self esteem, history of depression, etc. If she weren’t family I would feel really sorry for her - I do feel sorry for her - but any love in me for her has been emotionally battered out of me over the years. She has to be right. She’s argumentative. She was domineering throughout my childhood. In adolescence and even today she has no appreciation of boundaries or me as a separate person, and this comes out particularly in comments on my dress or appearance which are never good enough. (Example from only a couple of years ago: Your hair is too long it looks like witch’s hair. I’m 51, she’s 86, for goodness’ sake!) She frequently speaks to my DF with utter contempt.
She had very little to do with my son when he was small. She just didn’t seem to want to engage.
Lately she has less energy so she’s less aggressive - I think the fight’s going out for f her - and interestingly we have much longer conversations on the phone than in person. But generally I just feel weary of it. I also tend to avoid argument although I will call out particularly bad examples (for the last example I told her she was being rude).
Mother’s Day is hard. Why can’t I have someone who’s on my side?
The saddest thing is that as my son has grown up he has seen her aggression and also her non-involvement and as a result he has no relationship with his grandparents to speak of, and that makes me sad too, as if I’ve failed him.
all.
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