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Elderly parents

Argumentative mother - find it awkward to be around her

120 replies

BlueberryBuffin · 18/02/2023 11:11

Hi,
I'm not sure this is the right board, my DM is in her 70s. It's not an AIBU so much as techniques/support I need!

I live a few hours away from DM so don't see her much. But when I do I find her very argumentative if that's the right word.

Eg if we're talking about car seats for my DC she'll say they never had car seats in her day and everyone was fine. But I know if I had said car seats are a waste of money, why do we even bother she'd be outraged we wouldn't get one.

Eg I gave my DC plain yogurt mixed with fruit but some spoonfuls were just yogurt, some had more fruit. She made a face and said that yogurt was awful stuff, how could baby even eat it.

Eg we were talking about baby names, not my DC , just general conversation. Say the name "Doris" came up. I said Doris is not very popular these days for babies. She said well she knows three old ladies called Doris.

I say I'm going to buy X for myself. She says well why would you not buy Y?

I know these examples sound petty but it's most of the time . And it's her tone is challenging. Then I feel if I reply "yes but your 3 Doris examples are not newborn babies, they're 80 years old" or "well DC seems to be eating this yogurt just fine" or "I'm buying X because I prefer it to Y" then I sound like I'm the one being argumentative. And it also leaves scope for another comment from DM like "well she might be eating that yogurt but I'm sure she'd prefer a strawberry one, the poor child"

So I sit like a plank and say very little which is awkward and unfortunate.

If she has visitors (eg neighbours) she then complains about them afterwards and rolls her eyes at them saying AB or C.

My siblings seem to manage but they can be argumentative themselves. I'm not sure what I'm asking - maybe techniques to handle this that would allow me not to sit like a statue? And to want to spend time there?

At the moment my DM does not need care but would like company but as time goes by I'm sure she'll need more.

OP posts:
Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 18/02/2023 17:01

My mother was like this too. It got worse after my father died, he used to agree with everything she said or did. I think she missed his unconditional support and love, and her argumentative and challenging way was an attempt to elicit the same sort of support for me.

I more or less adopted the no argument approach, just agree or say you tell me more . Just to keep the peace. Of course it was difficult when I had to disagree ( about paying bills, for example).

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 18/02/2023 17:01

From me, of course. I don think she gave a tinkers whether I was supported by anyone.

canfor · 18/02/2023 17:21

I've had this from someone close to me. Found that just vaguely agreeing with them or just observing and not being confrontational back was a good way to go. It feels like they really want to wind you up and keep the conversation heated, but saying 'mmm you might be right there' or 'I never thought of it like that' or 'how interesting' or 'what a good idea' is the most amazing petty revenge. She might up her game and find more outrageous things to say, practice your tinkly laugh but never disagree. You might enjoy it as a bit of a game....

Mardyface · 18/02/2023 17:35

Have you tried digging down into what she's saying? Like if she says 'why would a baby eat yoghurt' say conversationally 'oh why do you say that?' and then if she says 'it tastes horrible' you could be like 'ooh in what way?' etc. I'm not saying it would stop her being argumentative bit it might make things more interesting/less annoying for you.

BlueberryBuffin · 18/02/2023 17:35

Seaweed42 · 18/02/2023 16:36

Just one theory....

Could it make sense that she is very needy for your attention when you are in the room with her?

Whatever is taking your attention gets in the way of your attention being focused solely on her. And that annoys her.

Therefore, rather than get angry with you for turning your attention away from her, she gets angry with the thing/topic/opinion that you are currently holding.

Therefore any you say you like, she is jealous of that and needs to insult that?
So if you say 'oh I see this lovely cream kettle here on the Argos website!'
She says 'what do you want cream for? Cream is a stupid colour for a kettle!'

Yes, it is like she wants to insult anything I express a vague interest in. I'll think about that... Thank you

OP posts:
BlueberryBuffin · 18/02/2023 17:36

Cuddlycheetah · 18/02/2023 16:54

Mine is the same. I've become very vague and say "oh" and "mmmmm maybe" a lot and she hates it. She really does bait me (and DC) for any type of argument / disagreement.

It's tiresome.

She doesn't do it with my siblings or nephews. Just me. I grew up trying to keep her happy but not anymore

It does seem like she is (probably unconsciously) trying to bait me for a disagreement

OP posts:
BlueberryBuffin · 18/02/2023 17:38

canfor · 18/02/2023 17:21

I've had this from someone close to me. Found that just vaguely agreeing with them or just observing and not being confrontational back was a good way to go. It feels like they really want to wind you up and keep the conversation heated, but saying 'mmm you might be right there' or 'I never thought of it like that' or 'how interesting' or 'what a good idea' is the most amazing petty revenge. She might up her game and find more outrageous things to say, practice your tinkly laugh but never disagree. You might enjoy it as a bit of a game....

I will try to game - ify conversations henceforth and go for the petty delight of not rising to the bait

OP posts:
BlueberryBuffin · 18/02/2023 17:43

Mardyface · 18/02/2023 17:35

Have you tried digging down into what she's saying? Like if she says 'why would a baby eat yoghurt' say conversationally 'oh why do you say that?' and then if she says 'it tastes horrible' you could be like 'ooh in what way?' etc. I'm not saying it would stop her being argumentative bit it might make things more interesting/less annoying for you.

I do find that if I try that I just get annoyed.

Like we had a very late dinner with three types of dessert and as older DC was going to bed she wanted a biscuit she had seen earlier. I said there's no way you would even have room for a biscuit now, anyway it's bedtime, you can have it tomorrow.
DM said "would you not give the child a biscuit".
And I said "but she's going to bed, she's full up anyway, she's late for bed and tired and she doesn't need sugary food. Or any food. Why would I give her a biscuit now "
DM: "well is there anything else she could have?"
Me: aaaaaaaaaaggggggghhhhhhh (internally)

Although as I type this, I see your point @Mardyface . It's not that I need to find out the underlying reason for her comment. It's so she can maybe see that if it's just to oppose me then maybe she could reconsider

OP posts:
freckles20 · 18/02/2023 18:09

This all feels very familiar to me OP and I know how wearing and frustrating it can become. It also prevents any kind of pleasant dialogue and risks an argument which in my case makes a few hours with my mum exhausting and quite an ordeal.

I've found the responses on this thread very illuminating. I hadn't considered it very deeply before- I guess I've seen it as what happens when my mum wants to make conversation and be listened to, but is in a pessimistic and negative frame of mind so has no intention of being nice.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 18/02/2023 18:19

Broken record technique that someone mentioned above can be useful.

In your case, OP, I think I might try "Mum, I find you're making a lot of negative comments these days, are you OK?" She might not even realise she's doing it.

BlueberryBuffin · 18/02/2023 20:43

freckles20 · 18/02/2023 18:09

This all feels very familiar to me OP and I know how wearing and frustrating it can become. It also prevents any kind of pleasant dialogue and risks an argument which in my case makes a few hours with my mum exhausting and quite an ordeal.

I've found the responses on this thread very illuminating. I hadn't considered it very deeply before- I guess I've seen it as what happens when my mum wants to make conversation and be listened to, but is in a pessimistic and negative frame of mind so has no intention of being nice.

Yes this is true for me too. DM wants to make conversation but is not a positive person so it's all negative.

As I side note, there's also a lot of "so and so's brother/neighbour/mother died last week". I never know the deceased and rarely even know "so and so" which means all I can reply is "oh dear"

OP posts:
BlueberryBuffin · 18/02/2023 20:44

CurlyhairedAssassin · 18/02/2023 18:19

Broken record technique that someone mentioned above can be useful.

In your case, OP, I think I might try "Mum, I find you're making a lot of negative comments these days, are you OK?" She might not even realise she's doing it.

@CurlyhairedAssassin good way to gently bring up the subject without sounding accusing. Thank you

OP posts:
Goldandpurplezebra · 18/02/2023 20:49

I think you could use humour to show her what she's doing. Like light heartedly tease her about it. That way it's not confrontational but she still gets the message that she's being annoying. You both might see the funny side in it then.

BorryMum · 18/02/2023 21:16

My mum has always been very negative. If you say anything she will find a down side to it. Not quite as argumentative but still draining. I got really down about it and avoided her for a while, then one day she did it again and I said 'you really are quite a negative person aren't you?' Seemed innocuous but it took a lot of courage for me to say. She actually agreed with me! Said 'yes I guess I am'. I think she was quite surprised by it and it stopped her in her tracks. Maybe a bit of home truth might help? If not go back to mmm, ok, right and at least you tried!

NattyNamechanger · 18/02/2023 21:28

Has she always been like this?
There are a few theories as to why people behave like this.
Toxic family dynamics where you are the scapegoat, therefore " wrong" in every way , hence the criticism and undermining.
Poor Theory of Mind -she cannot understand or assimilate that other people are separate to her with their own thoughts, needs and feelings.
High tolerance of conflict which can be part of the spectrum of NPD -literally the self esteem and ego is so fragile that anything other than agreement/ her way is seen as an attack.

The solution is to stop discussing things with her as she is unlikely to change.
Present things as a done deal.
Reply with neutral statements which extinguishes the conflict.
Sympathy, I've been there and it's very wearing.

Charliescat · 18/02/2023 21:33

Going through this at the moment with my dad and it’s unbearable even topics of conversation I think are safe such as sport there’s always an angle for him to start on me . Doesn’t help I am the only person he sees for any length of time as my sibling manages to escape coming to visit as he’s always conveniently busy .

NattyNamechanger · 18/02/2023 21:40

Oh apologies Op
Do you mean this has occurred as she has aged?
Some people do become like this as their world gets smaller as they age.

BlueberryBuffin · 18/02/2023 22:12

BorryMum · 18/02/2023 21:16

My mum has always been very negative. If you say anything she will find a down side to it. Not quite as argumentative but still draining. I got really down about it and avoided her for a while, then one day she did it again and I said 'you really are quite a negative person aren't you?' Seemed innocuous but it took a lot of courage for me to say. She actually agreed with me! Said 'yes I guess I am'. I think she was quite surprised by it and it stopped her in her tracks. Maybe a bit of home truth might help? If not go back to mmm, ok, right and at least you tried!

Yes, I should at least try!

OP posts:
TaraRhu · 18/02/2023 22:23

My mum is like this. She picks fights as sport. They are a bit more mean spirited than the ones you say. For example she'll say ' I don't see the point in an I pad' .I say 'they are quite useful on holiday. We take one to watch movies on' she says 'when I was young I'd spend the time actually talking to my husband'. Btw I do talk to my husband but if we are in a hotel with kids who are asleep at 8.30, we may watch a movie.

She's rude actually. My sisters and I have come to the conclusion she just gets off on conflict and arguments. She also does it when she's annoyed at us for something totally unrelated (an usually unknown).

BlueberryBuffin · 18/02/2023 22:26

NattyNamechanger · 18/02/2023 21:28

Has she always been like this?
There are a few theories as to why people behave like this.
Toxic family dynamics where you are the scapegoat, therefore " wrong" in every way , hence the criticism and undermining.
Poor Theory of Mind -she cannot understand or assimilate that other people are separate to her with their own thoughts, needs and feelings.
High tolerance of conflict which can be part of the spectrum of NPD -literally the self esteem and ego is so fragile that anything other than agreement/ her way is seen as an attack.

The solution is to stop discussing things with her as she is unlikely to change.
Present things as a done deal.
Reply with neutral statements which extinguishes the conflict.
Sympathy, I've been there and it's very wearing.

@NattyNamechanger
Thank you for the suggestions.
It's not a scape goat situation, she really loves me I think, just struggles/chooses not to be positive.
I think being negative/having strong opinions might be something she sees as part of her personality that my siblings fondly encourage "oh that's just mum, you know how she is" but I just shut down and cannot deal with it.

It is prob/possibly down to poor self esteem or somehow wrapped up in an inability to connect on a meaningful level as pp have suggested. When one of us does something she disagrees with she will not talk to us for.... Days/weeks/ Months. Which goes some way towards my lack of desire to have any disagreement or why I find this constant opposition/argumentative behaviour difficult to cope with.

It is not a new trait I don't think but I am trying to figure out why I feel so uncomfortable and how awkward I find my DMs company and what I can do to change the situation

OP posts:
BlueberryBuffin · 18/02/2023 22:27

NattyNamechanger · 18/02/2023 21:40

Oh apologies Op
Do you mean this has occurred as she has aged?
Some people do become like this as their world gets smaller as they age.

As in, I don't think it's getting worse as she gets older, I think I'm finding it harder to deal with as I get older!

OP posts:
BlueberryBuffin · 18/02/2023 22:27

Charliescat · 18/02/2023 21:33

Going through this at the moment with my dad and it’s unbearable even topics of conversation I think are safe such as sport there’s always an angle for him to start on me . Doesn’t help I am the only person he sees for any length of time as my sibling manages to escape coming to visit as he’s always conveniently busy .

That's tough @Charliescat . Could you go easy on yourself and visit less often?

OP posts:
BlueberryBuffin · 18/02/2023 22:30

TaraRhu · 18/02/2023 22:23

My mum is like this. She picks fights as sport. They are a bit more mean spirited than the ones you say. For example she'll say ' I don't see the point in an I pad' .I say 'they are quite useful on holiday. We take one to watch movies on' she says 'when I was young I'd spend the time actually talking to my husband'. Btw I do talk to my husband but if we are in a hotel with kids who are asleep at 8.30, we may watch a movie.

She's rude actually. My sisters and I have come to the conclusion she just gets off on conflict and arguments. She also does it when she's annoyed at us for something totally unrelated (an usually unknown).

Ouch!! Really you just have to laugh because otherwise you'd cry!

OP posts:
BlueberryBuffin · 18/02/2023 22:44

I'm thinking out loud here but I wonder is part of it because she doesn't see me as an autonomous adult and therefore if I think X I must be wrong and it's for her to set me straight and tell me that actually Y is correct?

She has overstepped boundaries in the past and has stopped speaking to me for things I have done in my own life that don't directly affect her. Eg moving to a different town with a boyfriend. Breaking up with a boyfriend (or rather him breaking up with me 😂). Getting back with a boyfriend. I know that me living with a certain person or in a certain place does affect her to an extent but it's my life really and my choices/mistakes to make.

(She has also been the same with my siblings over partners)

OP posts:
BeautifulDayintheneighbourhood · 18/02/2023 22:45

My mother is combative and rude. She also went through a phase of being very negative. I have always dealt with it by not telling her anything I’m doing or sharing anything I’m positive about as she will ruin it. This makes for very stilted conversation. She will respond by talking endlessly about herself whilst I sit mute and nod along. I disagree with nearly everything she said but I don’t make any comment. It’s incredibly draining and depressing and I hate seeing her. Every so often she will be outrageously, unforgivably rude and I will not have contact with her at all for months.
At the moment I haven’t spoken to her for four months. Quite honestly I cannot face trying to mend bridges because I know the same dynamic will prevail.
What is the point of putting myself back in the arena to be punched? I don’t like her and quite honestly I don’t think she likes me. She could die anytime which worries me, but this time I just can’t face going round to see her again to try and patch things up. It’s always me. She never apologises or makes the first move.

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