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Elderly parents
Original poster

I feel I should be posting on a board about toddlers not elderly parents.

129 replies

MissMarplesNiece · 09/02/2023 10:49

I have never known such a performance from a grown woman. DM is diabetic. Her blood sugar is out of control. She helps herself to biscuits & chocolate bars etc. Every morning she claims her blood sugar is so low she needs 2 spoons of sugar in her tea, this is despite her blood glucose readings of 12, 14, 18 and even 21 this week (normal is between 6 & 7). Low is below 4.

Yesterday she had an opticians appointment. I got a frantic call from nephew (DM lives with sister) because DM was having a temper tantrum because she was refused sugar in her tea (glucose 12.5 before breakfast). She was refusing to get dressed and wailing like a banshee. She was vile to my BiL and caused my sister to be late for work - keeping a sitting judge waiting. My nephew recorded part of her tantrum because I thought I wouldn't believe him. It was truly awful, when I say wailing I'm not exaggerating.

When I challenged her she said they're all liars, she never has biscuits or chocolate. She's never asked for sugar in her tea etc.

I feel (and my sister) that I am at my wits end with her. If she was a toddler we could make her sit on the naughty step, or whatever parents do with toddlers. A grown, adult woman who has agency & capacity but choses to behave like a spoilt child? What can I do?

OP posts:
gogohmm · 09/02/2023 16:08

Does she really have full capacity? Irrational behaviour and tantrums are often the first signs of dementia.

My advice is to have a united front as a family and say clearly to your mum that it may be time for different housing as you can't deal with her behaviour or say nothing about her diet.

EmmaEmerald · 09/02/2023 16:09

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 09/02/2023 15:54

(If she were having a hypo, sugar would be the correct treatment)

I'll ask the question again: if she were 45, would anyone think it's OK to prevent her making her own choices about what to eat, even if her choices weren't great?

There are loads of threads on MN about husbands calling their wives overweight and criticising what they eat. The husbands get called abusive and controlling.

If there is a type of behaviour that you think is wrong unless it happens to an old person, that is ageism.

Show quote history

On a personal level, I think I'd let her have the sugar
but would that leave family carers open to accusations of abuse? I'd have to check that first.

any regulars on here will know I am a big advocate of - do as you wish, but don't expect others to pick up the pieces.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 09/02/2023 16:10

She can refuse to move into sheltered accommodation yes, but she can't choose to stay in someone's home if they don't want her there. The OP's sister and family can evict her if she lives with them in a home owned or rented by them

And wouldn't that be a lovely way to treat a sick old woman? I'm beginning to think I'm better off without family to 'care' for me.

Thatcatisdrivingmenuts · 09/02/2023 16:16

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain What level of wailing is acceptable in your home? Also, what consequences should there be for the OP if her mother develops far more serious health issues. Yes , she has agency, but other people shouldn't have to suffer the consequences on her behalf.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 09/02/2023 16:17

Safeworkspace · 09/02/2023 15:57

I assume that you - and everyone else slagging off the mother - do 75 minutes of vigorous exercise every week, never drink more than 14 units of alcohol, and avoid sweet foods? And that your BMI is in the healthy range, you follow all recommendations about preventative care and screening, and that you always take all medications exactly as prescribed?

Yep I do all of those and more because MY health is MY responsibility

A predictable response. I don't believe you, as no one actually follows all preventative health advice. But, even if you are telling the truth, do you believe that no one who drinks too much or eats too much should be allowed to make bad choices? Do you think we should close down pubs and chippies? Do you think that anyone who is overweight should be banned from buying cakes and biscuits? I doubt it. We generally believe that people have the right to make bad choices - unless, of course, they make the mistake of being old.

What we have here is a situation whereby some people believe that - purely because someone is old - she does not have the right to determine what she eats and drinks.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 09/02/2023 16:21

Thatcatisdrivingmenuts · 09/02/2023 16:16

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain What level of wailing is acceptable in your home? Also, what consequences should there be for the OP if her mother develops far more serious health issues. Yes , she has agency, but other people shouldn't have to suffer the consequences on her behalf.

What an odd question. No-one's wailing in my home (well, except when the energy bill turns up).

And how the hell should I know what the consequences for the OP should be?

WedonttalkaboutMaureen · 09/02/2023 16:23

Presumably your complete inability to understand what you have read is why you don't have a legal foreground

👏 love it!

Soonenough · 09/02/2023 16:35

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow No , I am not a paragon of virtue. But I have the intelligence and awareness that my choices should not inflict care on my family. You can not have it both ways. Everybody has to do things they don't want to, that is the reality of advanced age . Again, one person's desires should not put others in such an awkward position. It is selfish .

WhereYouLeftIt · 09/02/2023 16:38

MissMarplesNiece · 09/02/2023 10:49

I have never known such a performance from a grown woman. DM is diabetic. Her blood sugar is out of control. She helps herself to biscuits & chocolate bars etc. Every morning she claims her blood sugar is so low she needs 2 spoons of sugar in her tea, this is despite her blood glucose readings of 12, 14, 18 and even 21 this week (normal is between 6 & 7). Low is below 4.

Yesterday she had an opticians appointment. I got a frantic call from nephew (DM lives with sister) because DM was having a temper tantrum because she was refused sugar in her tea (glucose 12.5 before breakfast). She was refusing to get dressed and wailing like a banshee. She was vile to my BiL and caused my sister to be late for work - keeping a sitting judge waiting. My nephew recorded part of her tantrum because I thought I wouldn't believe him. It was truly awful, when I say wailing I'm not exaggerating.

When I challenged her she said they're all liars, she never has biscuits or chocolate. She's never asked for sugar in her tea etc.

I feel (and my sister) that I am at my wits end with her. If she was a toddler we could make her sit on the naughty step, or whatever parents do with toddlers. A grown, adult woman who has agency & capacity but choses to behave like a spoilt child? What can I do?

You can't do a single thing, I'm afraid. She's adult, she has capacity, she's entitled to go to Hell in the handcart of her own choosing.

Having said that - "DM lives with sister". Your sister can do something about this behaviour. She can refuse to have this happen under her roof. She can tell your/her mum that mum living there isn't working, and it would be best for all concerned if she moved out and lived independently from now on. After all, she is an adult and she does have capacity.

Xol · 09/02/2023 16:40

Eyerollcentral · 09/02/2023 12:13

No I do get that dear, I just think it’s unbelievably pompous that the OP has decided to add that little titbit. I believe it’s the BIL who is a Judge.

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Clearly it's not BIL who is a sitting judge. It was the sister who was working in the court, possibly as a lawyer, who would have had to leave a sitting judge waiting. And it's not in the least pompous to explain the wider ramifications caused by OP's mother's behaviour.

EmmaEmerald · 09/02/2023 16:41

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 09/02/2023 16:21

What an odd question. No-one's wailing in my home (well, except when the energy bill turns up).

And how the hell should I know what the consequences for the OP should be?

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If you have no idea, and you find the wailing question odd, it seems that you don't have experience of caring for elderly relatives and just came for a bunfight?

Xol · 09/02/2023 16:44

Eyerollcentral · 09/02/2023 12:20

I did understand it meant he was late for court. It makes it more unbelievable this pantomime was allowed to continue. That a judge would keep themselves late for Court for this, well it would not be accepted if you were late to appear in front of them. I have a legal background, I know what a sitting judge is.

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Your assumption that only the husband could have a role working in court is unbelievably sexist.

In my legal experience, if you get a message to court explaining that a family emergency has delayed you, most judges will be quite forebearing. If possible, they will rearrange the lists so another case gets called on first.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 09/02/2023 16:47

If you have no idea, and you find the wailing question odd, it seems that you don't have experience of caring for elderly relatives and just came for a bunfight?

Pretty much all of MN there, then. Can you tell me the conditions under which I'm allowed to post my answer to a hypothetical (and slightly absurd) question so as not to be accused of 'just coming for a bunfight'?

Ta ever so.

Terrribletwos · 09/02/2023 16:52

Sunriseinwonderland · 09/02/2023 12:18

I look after diabetic adults. I give them the information, tell them what will happen if they don't follow my advice then let them get on with it.
They are adults and I am not their mother.
I would walk away from the tantrums and refuse to engage.

Your mother has autonomy. Pull back, distance yourselves from her health concerns; those are hers to deal with and by her actions she certainly doesn't want your input or concern.
Reapectfully, leave her to it.

Acheyknees · 09/02/2023 16:56

We all have choices, I sure OP's mother knows and was advised by health care professionals about reducing her sugar intake. If she chooses not to reduce it, then the OP has the choice not to deal with the fallout if her health suffers.

Terrribletwos · 09/02/2023 16:57

DecayedStrumpet · 09/02/2023 13:07

I was wondering how the responses would read if she were an alcoholic demanding vodka in her tea... the physiological damage is ballpark similar.

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She would still have her right to take vodka in her tea, if she wants.

Safeworkspace · 09/02/2023 16:59

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 09/02/2023 16:17

A predictable response. I don't believe you, as no one actually follows all preventative health advice. But, even if you are telling the truth, do you believe that no one who drinks too much or eats too much should be allowed to make bad choices? Do you think we should close down pubs and chippies? Do you think that anyone who is overweight should be banned from buying cakes and biscuits? I doubt it. We generally believe that people have the right to make bad choices - unless, of course, they make the mistake of being old.

What we have here is a situation whereby some people believe that - purely because someone is old - she does not have the right to determine what she eats and drinks.

Show quote history

You can't get your head around the fact that some people DO take responsibility for their own health? Wow... I run, swim, go to the gym, don't drink or smoke, healthy BMI and just managed to get my cholesterol down through diet which I'm quite chuffed about. It's quite empowering you know, having autonomy over your own health. I don't really mind if other people stuff their faces all day, smoke 20 fags or never leave the sofa but in this instance if the person's choices are impinging on other family members sanity then yes I do think they have some say in how much sugar she consumes whilst living under their roof. Not sure quite what their age has got to do with it tbh.

ImAvingOops · 09/02/2023 17:05

Yes, everyone has the right to choose what they eat, but would you buy an alcoholic a drink? The daughters don't want to collude in behaviours which are harmful to their mum. Abuse is harming someone for sick pleasure or not being bothered to care for a person when it's your responsibility - it really isn't refusing to give sugar to a diabetic.

Loving daughters are going to find it very hard to say 'do as you will, but move out'. What is more likely is that the mum will do as she wants and the daughter's family will have to deal with the consequences!

poobaloo · 09/02/2023 17:06

@MissMarplesNiece if she is cognitively intact, no dementia and has capacity, then you have to let her get on with it and make her own (bad) choices.
Refusing to put sugar in her tea though coming from a place of love and common sense, is only going to make her angrier as she has lost control.
You can talk to her about the consequences of the choices she is making, but she has the right to carry on making them.
If you're worried that she is developing dementia, you need to speak to the GP.
Sorry OP, it sounds really hard.

Chippy1234 · 09/02/2023 17:21

I get heartily sick of people saying these older people can do what they want!

NOT IF THE CONSEQUENCES OF WHAT THEY DO RESULTS IN THE FAMILY HAVING TO GET INVOLVED AND PICK UP THE PIECES.

My DM doesnt use a care line pendant. She said she did and lied. It resulted in her falling and who took the consequences of that reckless behaviour - ME!! I dont live locally so it made it even more difficult.

We pat ourselves on the back saying more and more people are living to 100. What sort of quality of life are these people experiencing?

Clearly in this case the elderly person needs to move to a place that can provide care for her and the family should not be pulled into dramas every day.

Some of the responses are clearly from people who dont have to deal with this day after day.

Original poster
MissMarplesNiece · 09/02/2023 18:00

My mum is 88 & very frail. She has gone past the stage of being able to live in supported living. She needs nearly 24 hour care but neither my mum or my sister want her to go into a care home. She's been T2 for about 40 years.

She is not bullied. She asks to have her glucose level tested but when she's told the level says she feels ill & needs sugar any way. I am also diabetic & know how ill high blood sugar makes a person feel. I've tried to explain this to her but she ignores me.

She was wailing & shouting yesterday because she knows her eyes are being affected by the high sugar & thought the optician would comment on this & thus didn't want to go. I suppose I could say "ok then, no more opticians appointment etc" but I feel I do have some obligation to help her look after her health. In the same vein my sister could say help yourself to whatever you want, the consequences are on your head. Do we let her go blind, lose her feet etc?

Yes, DSis kept a legal judge waiting.

OP posts:
Chippy1234 · 09/02/2023 18:09

No loving daughter will leave them to stew even if they have brought it on themselves which is often the case.

Badger1970 · 09/02/2023 18:14

That sounds incredibly stressful for you all.

poobaloo · 09/02/2023 18:33

Chippy1234 · 09/02/2023 17:21

I get heartily sick of people saying these older people can do what they want!

NOT IF THE CONSEQUENCES OF WHAT THEY DO RESULTS IN THE FAMILY HAVING TO GET INVOLVED AND PICK UP THE PIECES.

My DM doesnt use a care line pendant. She said she did and lied. It resulted in her falling and who took the consequences of that reckless behaviour - ME!! I dont live locally so it made it even more difficult.

We pat ourselves on the back saying more and more people are living to 100. What sort of quality of life are these people experiencing?

Clearly in this case the elderly person needs to move to a place that can provide care for her and the family should not be pulled into dramas every day.

Some of the responses are clearly from people who dont have to deal with this day after day.

No the families shouldn't get pulled into the dramas.
You cannot force someone who has capacity to behave in a certain way.
You can make it clear to the person what the consequences of that behaviour/ choice is, and that one of those consequences may be families pulling away and no longer providing care or support.
There is research to show that older people purposely make risky choices, such as refusing to wear a pendant alarm, because it gives them a feeling on control and having agency.
I am in no way saying that families should just put up with it and that it's not incredibly hard. I have a DM who makes what I see as pretty stupid choices despite me trying to help her understand why different behaviours would make things easier for her. I can try but I cannot make her change her mind.

EmmaEmerald · 09/02/2023 18:45

MissMarplesNiece apols, I thought she was 92.

I didn't realise your DSis was managing 24 hour care. What is her concern re care home? I realise it will be hard to get mum to agree but wonder why your sis objects. How on earth do they cope atm?

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