I feel I should be posting on a board about toddlers not elderly parents.

[MissMarplesNiece]

I have never known such a performance from a grown woman. DM is diabetic. Her blood sugar is out of control. She helps herself to biscuits & chocolate bars etc. Every morning she claims her blood sugar is so low she needs 2 spoons of sugar in her tea, this is despite her blood glucose readings of 12, 14, 18 and even 21 this week (normal is between 6 & 7). Low is below 4.

Yesterday she had an opticians appointment. I got a frantic call from nephew (DM lives with sister) because DM was having a temper tantrum because she was refused sugar in her tea (glucose 12.5 before breakfast). She was refusing to get dressed and wailing like a banshee. She was vile to my BiL and caused my sister to be late for work - keeping a sitting judge waiting. My nephew recorded part of her tantrum because I thought I wouldn't believe him. It was truly awful, when I say wailing I'm not exaggerating.

When I challenged her she said they're all liars, she never has biscuits or chocolate. She's never asked for sugar in her tea etc.

I feel (and my sister) that I am at my wits end with her. If she was a toddler we could make her sit on the naughty step, or whatever parents do with toddlers. A grown, adult woman who has agency & capacity but choses to behave like a spoilt child? What can I do?

Taking responsibility for is not the same as looking after your health. You can do what you like if you are taking personal responsibility. As opposed to relying on family to look after you and blaming them for your own failings.

I think all you can do is try to persuade her to go to the GP. My DM has those sorts of readings occasionally and doesn't behave like that remotely. There is likely something else going on.

If a carer in a nursing home told a patient with capacity they couldn’t have sugar in their tea they’d be in trouble with their manager for it.

You simply don’t have the right to do this to other adults anymore than our dhs have the right to tell us what to do.

How do you know that she is relying on her family? Where does it say that she is blaming them for her failings?

She didn't want to go to the optometrist. That's her choice. The OP says she has capacity.

The family are controlling what she eats, recording her 'tantrums' and failing to respect her wishes.

I'd say pick your battles. If she's gobbling several chocolate bars a day, sugar in a cup of tea probably won't make much difference.

That's your interpretation. It doesn't say any of that in the OP. I'm guessing her family would prefer her not to constantly eat sugar, chocolate and biscuits so that she doesn't end up with her feet amputated and losing her sight, and they once said she shouldn't have sugar in her tea and she went ballistic, and because it seems so unbelievable that a grown adult would behave like that they recorded her to show others what she was like.

If they fully respect her wishes they will also be the ones looking after her as her health deteriorates. It's not easy or straightforward, and it's bloody awful looking after someone reacts violently and abusively to family, whatever the cause.

I think the answer is step back and let her make her own choices, but make it clear she will have to deal with the consequences herself.

The OP does say that she was refused sugar in her tea.

It does say that she refused to get dressed to go to the optometrist.

It does say that the nephew recorded her 'tantrum'.

If this was happening to a woman of 45, would you think it is OK? Older people have the same rights to autonomy - including to make bad choices - as anyone else.

It's abusive and horrible behaviour. The family have every right to decline to care for her. They do not have the right to abuse her.

I was about to log out - apparently even this board has lost it - but thought I'd answer this.

OP mum is in her 90s. OP mum lives with her DD and family as they care for her.

I don'y know what the legalities are about refusing sugar. I do know that if OP mum goes into a diabetic coma, there will be all sorts for her and her DSis to manage.

I genuinely don't know what happens if a patient is in a home and has capacity, I don't know if they are supposed to enforce doctors orders etc.

MissMarplesNiece if you are still here, big hugs. I would get another capacity assessment for your mum, not because of the sugar, but because of the way she behaves. I wish I could offer more help than that.

some posters need to be aware this is Elderly Parents, not AIBU.

if she actually has mental capacity then you need to arrange for her to move into sheltered accommodation and as pp suggest above get her to sign a document stating that she understands she can have no expectation of family help with self-induced illness if she chooses not to manage her diabetes.

if she decides of her own free will to eat badly and hasten her own death she has that right, but she doesn't have the right to make the rest of you suffer in the mean time.

Give her the sugar. I went through this with my mother, who died at age 70 of complications from Type 2 diabetes.

You can't fix people. My mother was broken because my brother had died, and sugar was her drug of choice. Your mother, for whatever reason, has chosen the same drug. Yes, in all likelihood it will eventually kill her, and it's an ugly death. Love her now as much as you can and start working through your grieving process for what you've lost and will lose. I'm so sorry.

I have a similar situation. Why should one persons wants override everyone else's in the home.? Throwing a tantrum over sugar is unacceptable behaviour no matter what age . It is all very well saying to let her do what she wants but it is not OK that it will be left to the family to deal with her when she collapses, goes blind or needs amputation. And actually she is being a stupid old woman if she ignores medical advice .

if she actually has mental capacity then you need to arrange for her to move into sheltered accommodation and as pp suggest above get her to sign a document stating that she understands she can have no expectation of family help with self-induced illness if she chooses not to manage her diabetes

If she has capacity then she can refuse to do the first and the second sounds like bullying; and I'm not sure what legal standing you think that would have. Or any standing at all.

I assume that you - and everyone else slagging off the mother - do 75 minutes of vigorous exercise every week, never drink more than 14 units of alcohol, and avoid sweet foods? And that your BMI is in the healthy range, you follow all recommendations about preventative care and screening, and that you always take all medications exactly as prescribed?

There is a strong theme of ageism on this thread. The reality is that people of all ages are non-compliant with medical advice. I bet at least half the people criticising the mother on here are overweight and drink more than the recommended limits. You're setting yourselves up for your own kids having to care for you, and for diabetes and cancer. But I bet you'd still be pretty fucked off if your kids refused to let you eat and drink what you chose.

This thread demonstrates why we have safeguarding procedures in this country.

It’s dangerous for my mum to walk without 2 carers present - so she did, and she fell, and split her head open and she fibbed about it all. I tried to get follow on physio to tell her not to walk without people there, but apparently it’s up to her as an adult with capacity to choose and they couldn’t tell her not to.
She was advised by physio re not walking alone whilst still unsteady, but the only reason she hasn’t actually walked alone since is her reduced ability in it.
I feel for carers who risk finding her like that again, and worry she’ll damage herself beyond what can be managed in the home, but her choices can’t be stopped. However, a recent social assessment said to me that they’d be hugely concerned if she did start walking, and may look to put in more safety measures against that - but that would be after more falls/dangerous stuff and as her dementia is getting worse.
I get the impression your mum has full capacity- though demonstrating some behaviours linked to elderly (and toddlers yes) - so really it’s her choice. I don’t think you have to put sugar in her tea for her though but maybe don’t stop her putting her own in. See if a diabetic nurse can go over things with her and if they think she’s onboard.
It is hard so best of luck.

Awful, isn't it? filming a sick old woman, pp saying she should be put in a home and telling them to get her to sign a document saying she doesn't expect them to help her if she carries on like she is. I know what my response would be if something like that was shoved in front of me.

I don't know what the legalities are about refusing sugar. I do know that if OP mum goes into a diabetic coma, there will be all sorts for her and her DSis to manage.

I think they can't win. Some people on here criticising the family of an already hypo person for not letting them have extra sugar would be the first to turn around and slag them off for letting the family member become so ill when complications of diabetes set in.

What can I do?

You can accept she has the right to live her life how she wants to, including choosing not to take care of her health. Perhaps she has decided a short fun filled life is preferable to a long restricted one? You don't all have to put up with being her carers though when her health fails as a result of her choices. I'd be insisting she lives in her own home, if she doesn't already. She's responsible for the outcome of her choices. It's unfair for her to dump an unnecessary workload on you by not taking care of her health. I know it's difficult because you love her and don't want her to die when it could be prevented, but it's her life and you need to respect that. I'm presuming she knows the complications of untreated diabetes? You could talk to her about those if not.

(If she were having a hypo, sugar would be the correct treatment)

I'll ask the question again: if she were 45, would anyone think it's OK to prevent her making her own choices about what to eat, even if her choices weren't great?

There are loads of threads on MN about husbands calling their wives overweight and criticising what they eat. The husbands get called abusive and controlling.

If there is a type of behaviour that you think is wrong unless it happens to an old person, that is ageism.

Blood glucose levels naturally rise as we age and over the age of 65, you don’t usually want to let it go below 6. Depending on the degree of frailty, an upper limit as high as 18 may be appropriate.
If she is over 65, and especially if she has other comorbidities, I’d speak to the community Diabetes Nursing Team about whether it would be appropriate to relax her targets. Maybe she does need that spoon of sugar!

You can accept she has the right to live her life how she wants to, including choosing not to take care of her health

Yes this. Late DM was a functioning alcoholic who basically wanted to die and decided that and a cancer too far advanced to be treated was the way to go. She was in complete denial about the first (phoning me when she could barely speak but denying she was drunk) and the second might have been fear of what she'd have to go through and a constitutional unwillingness to go to the doctor for anything. Nothing we could do about either but ensure she was cared for until she died.

I assume that you - and everyone else slagging off the mother - do 75 minutes of vigorous exercise every week, never drink more than 14 units of alcohol, and avoid sweet foods? And that your BMI is in the healthy range, you follow all recommendations about preventative care and screening, and that you always take all medications exactly as prescribed?

Yep I do all of those and more because MY health is MY responsibility

OP just a thought to add to those who’ve mentioned possible dementia (I know it’s not pleasant to contemplate for your parents). My DDad has fronto-temporal dementia which affects that part of the brain. Although he has some memory issues he doesn’t present in the classic way we’d imagine someone with dementia would - very confused and forgetful. Fronto-temporal dementia is more associated with aggression and behaviour change and craving sweet food is a known symptom. He is also diabetic, hides sweets and gets very angry with my DM if she tries to ration his diet.

Yes she doesn't need to sign anything about family help because family have no legal obligation to help anyway, they can just say no sorry it's not convenient, if she calls.

She can refuse to move into sheltered accommodation yes, but she can't choose to stay in someone's home if they don't want her there. The OP's sister and family can evict her if she lives with them in a home owned or rented by them. Her choices are then homelessness, private rental or social housing (which is going to mean sheltered housing, given her age and health). Sheltered housing is just a bit safer that's all, it doesn't mean there's restrictions on her life choices. It would be a bit daft to turn it down really.