I want to throw in the towel please help

[LeeMucklowesCurtains]

I’m sorry if this is disjointed and makes no sense.

My dad has been in a care home since December last year, vascular dementia.

The place he’s in is £1200 a week. He’s got a flat to sell that’s on the market for 125 and about 40k in savings.

He moved to the home hes in a couple of months ago, he was in another home at first that the local authority put him into after the hospital admission where he was finally diagnosed with dementia after I had to put up a fight (he was quite far gone, but despite that, medical professionals kept telling me he was fine).

That home was awful, they were shut for a month due to covid so we couldn’t see him. When we did, he had lost stones in weight, he was covered in sores and bruises.

We found somewhere better and he’s gained all the weight back there and is doing better.

We were trying to set up deferred payment, I don’t know what happened but things have been lost in translation with the finance side and they called sent me an invoice for the 12,000 he owes since being there and said they would start legal proceedings if it wasn’t paid.

I managed to sort that out and we are speaking to them again trying to set up deferred payment (I took my eye off the ball as I’ve been going through cancer investigations) but I’m so confused going forward.

Going with the care home as it’s interest free for deferred payment rather than the council.

His flat has been on the market 6 weeks, I’m terrified something will go wrong and it won’t sell. The market here is awful.

When I was speaking to them today I was asking about worst case - he doesn’t get the money etc.

Apparently I signed a form as guarantor. I can’t remember what I signed, it was the day before a scan I was having and I was terrified and my dad was sat in the room screaming and hallucinating and I just wanted him moved in there and out of the place that had neglected him.

My husband has hit the roof over that, what if something went wrong and we lost the little we do have because of my dad.

We’ve only just managed to buy our first house in our 40s with a massive struggle, we don’t have a pot to piss in to be frank, what if they came after me for money?

I’m so stressed that honestly, at this moment i just want to revoke the power of attorney, call adult social care and make it their problem. They can move him where they like, sell his house and keep all his money, I can’t do this anymore.

I don’t know what I am doing, I am so sick and it’s all just me, no one will explain anything or help me. Everyone just wants things from me all the time.9

I’ve not even done anything about stuff like his council tax, I don’t know how to sign his shit old car over to me. I need to keep it as it’s all he talks about all the tim and if he didn’t see it on my drive once a week when he comes here, it would cause him so much distress.

He only completed on his flat in December. The sale of his last place and buying this flat near me took almost a year because of the other people in the chain messing around - he was showing no signs of dementia when he was first moving here, he deteriorated so fast. so land registry isn’t even in his name yet which is what caused the problems with the care home and the deferred payment - they didn’t believe it was his to sell. I’ve sent them relevant paperwork.

Everything is such a huge mess and I don’t know what to do. I can’t cope with it all and seeing him like this.

I’ve spoken to three solicitors who have all told me different things too.

And age U.K. which is who everyone recommends to talk to we’re all but useless and told me something different to everyone else too.

He wouldn’t have enough for the two years if I did that he needs to prove he has to stay where he is - after two years they will apply to the council for funding in the hope he can stay there.

It sounds really hard, and I think your husband sounds like a rock.

I've no advice ref getting things moving.

Ref the car. Can you sell and get rid of it as it must be a continual reminder. Tell him that X has taken it for a drive round to make sure it's still okay.

With dementia it's very much a case of rinse and repeat, like a stuck record.

I'm another one saying cut back on the visits, once a week, once a month. Don't have him at home. It's hard, and the guilt will be huge. But you need to protect yourselves, support each other and take care of your young family.

This might help you with tracking down the lost NI number www.gov.uk/lost-national-insurance-number

Im sorry I haven't read all the thread.

Im here to say that I think you should do what you said in the original post - tell the nursing home you can't guarantee that you will ever have the money and remove yourself as POA.

I'm saying that because I think the priority here is you, and your husband and children. Your father very sadly is deteriorating and will probably not be alive much longer. Do not sacrifice yourself, your marriage and the small amount of security you have for the sake of a few short months. Your father can't be at home or at yours and his wellbeing in a care home is not your responsibility.

Start there. Get yourself into a situation that is bearable and safe. Show your husband you will put him first. The rest follows.

I agree with most of the advice I have read here so far, but a notarised POA is acceptable to any respectable organisation. Do not let the original document out of your sight because you are going to need multiple notarised copies for every organisation who will refuse to help under GDPR rules to help without it. And ask the solicitor who drafted it to register it with the Office of the Public Guardian so it is on the official record.

A solicitor didn’t draft the POA - did it myself on the government website. It was no hassle, and it all went though quite quickly. It’s all registered now.

Its registered online. So you usually just generate a code. That’s what we did for the estate agent, all fine. We don’t need to show copies of it.

Sorry OP, that sounded unsymphathetic, and I am not because I am trying to sort out my DMIL's situation and recover from cancer complications myself. She was , before vascular dementia, very savvy financially and spread her little ISA pots among companies to ensure the money was always covered by banking guarantees but unravelling it all so her money is all in one pot to fund care is anything but straightforward.

And obviously they sent me a copy of each of the Documents, with their stamp and verification marks.

The one good thing my dad did in the last few years was just to get everything in one place, just his main account. It was to make it all easy for me when he died.

@LeeMucklowesCurtains that sounds much better than ours, well done. Our EPOA is so old (2007) and outdated that lots of banks and building societies throw obstacles in the way. DMIL has a reasonable amount of money to fund her care, but I have volunteered to move her to a home near us (a 300 mile trip) over this BH weekend (she's going by private ambulance with care support). So I am driving the 600 miles to smooth the beginning and end of her journey. Toiletries all ready, medication for the month all prepped and packed, new nightie bought and pre-washed/dried. Got my big girl pants ready to mop SIL's histrionic crocodile tears. Not looking forward to it. No one could be, but once we pull it off, it will make the declining years easier. I hold on to that. And when it's done and dusted, I really believe DMIL will be better and happier. The home is bigger and better resourced, and we can be there almost daily to help her settle in.

I'm sorry you are having such difficulty OP.

I really think you need to really cut back on the visiting. This is simply not sustainable and at this rate either you or your husband are going to make yourselves ill and then you won't be able to help your dad or your DC.

Realistically the care home would be mad to take legal action against you. They know the money is there it's just taking time to access it. You will get access to the savings in the reasonably near future, you just have to keep plugging away at it with the bank. If you are finding it challenging to deal with the deferred payments via the home then perhaps reconsider using the council option. It's a false economy if it saves you some interest but doesn't actually work.

Are there any smaller local charities that can perhaps help you? Citizen's Advice can also be helpful, call them and see if the local branch has anyone who can help.

I also think it would be worth seeing your GP for yourself to see what support they can offer you. It won't always be like this.

I was on the phone to HSBC complaints when they opened at 8am.

They don’t know what’s going on.

It’s been escalated to the mangers of both the complaints team and the power of attorney team. I should be getting a call back today, it’s been marked as urgent.

I’ll have to call the care company again. No one called me back yesterday like they said they would.

It’s all left a bad taste in my mouth to be honest, and no one seems to know what anyone else is doing.

I spoke to the estate agent yesterday evening, there is a cash buyer interested in two of the properties on sale in my dads block to buy and rent out - including his.

I will believe it when I see it though. They have an appointment at the branch on tuesday for all the affordability checks as they are refinancing another rental property to do it. So I won’t count my chickens just yet as it’s all be bad news and dashed hopes for the last two years.

Estate agent said she will speak to the care company, to ensure them it’s on the market and the land registry isn’t an issue.

I have taken on board the visiting situation- but it’s not like I have a gun to my head. He’s my dad, I love him. I want to see him, no matter how vile he can be, that’s not him it’s the dementia. I want him to continue visiting here on a Sunday, my children adore him and they have always been his life (my eldest is 20 so he’s been a very hands on grandparent for a long time), and the younger ones wouldn’t get to see him otherwise. Dh is fond of him and wants to see him too, he hates that my dad has gone from being very active and independent right up to the age of 87 and then this has happened so suddenly.

There’s no one else at all. No family (my mum died when I was a child, no siblings), the friends he had all fucked off when he became ill and there might have been a tiny chance they would actually have to do something to help him or me.

I am POA for my grandmother and had these sorts of issues with the bank when I first needed to access her account. I would turn up at your local branch and ask them to see you on the spot. I did and they finally sorted it out.

Apologies OP I didn't see subsequent replies but my advice doesn't change. HSBC dealt with my Dad's estate executor account in branch, they should also deal with this, they can't keep fobbing you off with their shit telephone system.

The branches within 20 miles are “digital branches”.

They won’t speak to you, they just direct you to a computer in a side room.

It’s absolute madness.

I’ve escalated it now to above branch level. Just waiting on the call from the relevant teams.

He had an on/off girlfriend of 20 years who I am so fucking angry with too.

When he got ill she totally abandoned him.

It was her idea that if he bought a flat near me, she would come and stay with him, to help me out. This was before he really started going down hill, obviously, that would never have been appropriate with how things have turned out for him.

Then as the flat was going through, she changed her mind. She’s a multi millionaire, properties all over the world and she wanted no ties to him anymore incase someone expected her to pay towards any of his care (she’s much younger, not young, but not an old lady by any means and no one would have expected or asked her to pay for anything, she’s never paid towards anything for him or anyone else, no one has ever asked for it or had a penny from her so I don’t know where she got that idea from).

Her last words to me before Christmas were “shove him in a home and forget about him”, which was nice. She’s had no contact since.

Actually, it was 30 years, shaved ten years off my own age there for a second!

I hope you're ok, OP.

I've had dealings with banks over various other things and always find them to be pretty useless with anything more complex than something that can be sorted out in a local branch. Kick up a fuss and threaten them with the Financial Ombudsman, and say you want to be compensated for the amount of time it's taken up.

The FO has a useful guide to complaining here - How to complain (financial-ombudsman.org.uk).

MPs can also write to your bank and ask them to sort themselves out.

Hopefully now it's been escalated it will be dealt with and one thing off your list.

Sorry OP not sure I’ve grasped the full chain of events, with this large caveat therefore I suggest the following pragmatic steps:

1. Get a CHC assessment for your father asap and if his needs are deemed to have a ‘primary health need’ the NHS will pay for his care. He won’t pay a penny www.england.nhs.uk/healthcare/
2. Ask the care home for a copy of the contract you signed. If they can’t produce it deny responsibility for being a guarantor. If they do produce it say that it is invalid for two reasons - you signed it under a degree of duress, and there was misrepresentation on their part as you were not made aware you were agreeing to act as a guarantor.
3. When you finally get access put your father’s bank account online for easy access - and keep all receipts for money spent on his behalf.
4. Sell his house to a quick sale company.

All the best OP, it is a horrid situation for you.

@ItsYabbaDabbaDoTime he will not qualify for CHC (very few do) and I think the op has enough paperwork to deal with!

My sympathies op💐, was bad enough dealing with financial institutions after my dad died, they really need to symplify the processes. I'm not surprised you are overwhelmed! I see a lot of these type of problems in my job and many a time have had to advise relatives (and afraid to say the majority are daughters) to take a step back and put themselves first as they cannot help their loved ones if they are burnt out. You are paying all this money to the care homes to 'care' for him so that you know he is safe, I know it's hard but try to let them do their job and look after yourselves more.💐

Hi, thank you.

In answer to some of these, he doesn’t have needs that would be paid for at the moment.

I have a copy of the contract I signed. I would have signed my soul away to the devil that day, the only responsibility on that lays on me.

I can’t sell his house to a quick sale company. He wouldn’t have the two years fees he needs to stay at the home with the cut they would take. It would be a last resort as I would have to move him either now or as soon as the money ran out - they can’t apply to the council for funding until he’s been there two years. And there is no guarantee the council would pay the whole amount anyway, there’s no way we can top up the fees so we would probably have to move him them anyway.

But, I honestly don’t think he will still be alive in two years, and if he is, he will probably need significant care then which may be covered or if we have to move him, he won’t know where he is anyway. That’s the reality of it.

I am really hoping this offer comes through okay. The purchaser has an appointment with the estate agent tomorrow for affordability.

I spoke to the bank on friday. The complaints team denied all knowledge that we had sent the information they asked for. Said we hadn’t sent them what they asked for and that’s why it’s been delayed - we had sent Thank goodness for email trials. I have all the correspondence from them acknowledging receipt of the things they say they didn’t receive. Hopefully it will be sorted next week.

The care company agreed on friday to do deferred payment backdated to when he moved in. They will wait until the bank is sorted for payment.

So it still all hinges on house selling.

And if we have to sell for much lower and have to move him somewhere else then so be it.

When you turn up to a bank for an appointment don't forget to bring your own documents, too . Bring your own passport/ driver's licence and a utility bill. My DSis & I had to visit the bank six times to get Guardianship sorted. It's unbelievable how much proof they need,.

Oh I know, they wanted it all plus 5 years adress history for me as well.

All online though.

Or not thankfully seeing as they denied that I’d ever sent them anything, until I sent the complaints department the entire email thread including their acknowledgments and suddenly, oh yes, I had sent it all, silly them.

I have POA sorted at the bank.

I ended up driving two towns away to the closest branch that wasn’t a useless digital one yesterday and basically had a breakdown.

Two and a half hours I was in there.

Turns out it’s been a shitshow. They could never have processed it. They hadn’t saved any of the ID we had provided. They have messed up the process from the word go.

The branch manager gave me all the info to raise a further complaint.

He said there was a back log of months, but that they would rush it though.

Just had a call to say it will all be set up by the end of play tomorrow, it’s all done, or just takes 24 hours to update all the systems.

Spoke to the estate agent, all seems good, they are just awaiting for her ID checks. Please keep it crossed.

The bank manger called the care home finance team while I was there and was quite ferocious with them. They agreed there and then to set up deferred payment and emailed me the paperwork there and then.

Also, Id forgotten about council tax so did that today. They were SO helpful.

Because he never moved in and was in hospital when the sale completed and went straight to a home from there, he’s exempt.

Tomorrow I just need to call dvla about his car.

Then, dh has taken friday off work to get a bank statement and go though all bills etc.