I want to throw in the towel please help

[LeeMucklowesCurtains]

I’m sorry if this is disjointed and makes no sense.

My dad has been in a care home since December last year, vascular dementia.

The place he’s in is £1200 a week. He’s got a flat to sell that’s on the market for 125 and about 40k in savings.

He moved to the home hes in a couple of months ago, he was in another home at first that the local authority put him into after the hospital admission where he was finally diagnosed with dementia after I had to put up a fight (he was quite far gone, but despite that, medical professionals kept telling me he was fine).

That home was awful, they were shut for a month due to covid so we couldn’t see him. When we did, he had lost stones in weight, he was covered in sores and bruises.

We found somewhere better and he’s gained all the weight back there and is doing better.

We were trying to set up deferred payment, I don’t know what happened but things have been lost in translation with the finance side and they called sent me an invoice for the 12,000 he owes since being there and said they would start legal proceedings if it wasn’t paid.

I managed to sort that out and we are speaking to them again trying to set up deferred payment (I took my eye off the ball as I’ve been going through cancer investigations) but I’m so confused going forward.

Going with the care home as it’s interest free for deferred payment rather than the council.

His flat has been on the market 6 weeks, I’m terrified something will go wrong and it won’t sell. The market here is awful.

When I was speaking to them today I was asking about worst case - he doesn’t get the money etc.

Apparently I signed a form as guarantor. I can’t remember what I signed, it was the day before a scan I was having and I was terrified and my dad was sat in the room screaming and hallucinating and I just wanted him moved in there and out of the place that had neglected him.

My husband has hit the roof over that, what if something went wrong and we lost the little we do have because of my dad.

We’ve only just managed to buy our first house in our 40s with a massive struggle, we don’t have a pot to piss in to be frank, what if they came after me for money?

I’m so stressed that honestly, at this moment i just want to revoke the power of attorney, call adult social care and make it their problem. They can move him where they like, sell his house and keep all his money, I can’t do this anymore.

I don’t know what I am doing, I am so sick and it’s all just me, no one will explain anything or help me. Everyone just wants things from me all the time.9

I’ve not even done anything about stuff like his council tax, I don’t know how to sign his shit old car over to me. I need to keep it as it’s all he talks about all the tim and if he didn’t see it on my drive once a week when he comes here, it would cause him so much distress.

He only completed on his flat in December. The sale of his last place and buying this flat near me took almost a year because of the other people in the chain messing around - he was showing no signs of dementia when he was first moving here, he deteriorated so fast. so land registry isn’t even in his name yet which is what caused the problems with the care home and the deferred payment - they didn’t believe it was his to sell. I’ve sent them relevant paperwork.

Everything is such a huge mess and I don’t know what to do. I can’t cope with it all and seeing him like this.

I’ve spoken to three solicitors who have all told me different things too.

And age U.K. which is who everyone recommends to talk to we’re all but useless and told me something different to everyone else too.

With regard to his car - it’s an ongoing battle.

If I say something is wrong with it or it’s been stolen, all hell will break lose.

He already shouts and screams at me to take him to a car showroom, he’s got 40k he wants
go buy a new one. There is no reasoning with him.

Its only worth £700, drop in the ocean to
the fees.

I'm so sorry you're going through all this, I know well how difficult and frustrating it is dealing with SS, local councils and care homes on behalf of elderly relatives.
A few points stood out -- can you ask to see the form they say you signed agreeing to be a guarantor?
I think you should have been given a copy of it at the time.
My late DM was in this position re residential care and we opted for deferred payments to the care home through the local council. They were completely professional and above board, everything operated very smoothly and I had every confidence in them.

This was in stark contract to the Care Home owner manager who constantly tried to bill me for 'extras' and 'top-up' fees despite the fact that this was not allowed at that time. I just referred him to the council as it was their responsibility and they dealt with him, I'm happy to say. (Sent him away with a flea in his ear)
So the council paid her monthly fees, with copies to me, until her house was sold and we paid the debt she had accrued with them.
if there is any chance of your council taking over the fees for now it would be one worry less for you at the moment, even though it will of course have to be paid back out of his house proceeds, or from his estate.

I don't suppose many people could afford to be a guarantor for £1200 a week.

If the bank are messing your around for 2 months, make a complaint. The complaints department often will get things done if nothing is happening, or at the least should be able to talk you thorough what should be happening and the timescales.

Sounds horribly stressful, but it also sounds like it can be sorted out, all be it it will be a complete pain in the bum to do.

Has he had a capacity assessment, it may be too late for poa now if he has lost capacity, have you spoken to the opg about the delay and the outstanding bill. If it wont be granted you need to apply for urgent deputyship and ask the court of protection to make the payment..

I really feel like you need some real
life support OP, someone to sit with you and go through everything and help you figure out what needs to be done next. Not because you're 'a bit thick' (you're clearly not from your posts) but because you're utterly overwhelmed, as most of us would be in your shoes. I just feel like someone with a clear head and no emotional involvement needs to take some of this off your shoulders, is there anyone in your life who could do that? It's something I would gladly do if you were local to me, not that I'm an expert in any way but it must feel like trying to walk through quicksand when you have all the emotional stuff to deal with too plus your own health worries, if I could help someone in that situation I definitely would.

His NI number should be on his bank statement where his state pension is paid in.

Firstly you are not thick I went through this with my parents thought I was losing my mind

1)Apply for Attendance allowance his NI number will be on his bank statement next to his state pension, you have POA so just go into the bank and get a statement.

2)Ring and get Attendence allowance forms sent out, now so when awarded it is backdated to when you requested the forms.( you get six weeks to fill them in from memory)

3. Speak to Adult social services and request a continuing healthcare funding assessment (easy to get assessment but hard to get but not impossible to get the funding)

4. Car do an online transfer via DVLA bear in mind if he has dementia and lost his licence he would not be able to insure it, so could be another headache for you, other option sorn it and stick it up the drive unisured if its only worth £700

5. Council tax, you can get a refund from the date he was diagnosed.

6. I fought the local authority and got a contract through them which capped the fees at the council rate over £400 per week cheaper than private (even though mum was self funding, this could be even more possible if you defer fees through the council.

Wish you and your family all the best and if you need any help/ advice just message me as I have been through this with both mum and dad xx

@newbiename

I accept that, but my Dh would not be throwing the head, he would be quietly supportive and privately annoyed.

Guess we are all different.

OP you sound horribly stressed. You have been through an awful lot. Hoping you can effect some change with the bank soon.

You will get through this.

Sorry for all your troubles OP. You will get there in the end. Take a deep breath and prioritise what you absolutely NEED to do now, and then next, and so on.

Would you consider getting Citizen's Advice about this? They may know of firms who will take over the administration and liaise with all the relevant parties. Worth the money to have it all done for you, which you could I suppose reclaim from your father's account when it is all sorted. It is all for his benefit anyway.

I was in a similar situation to yours with my late mother and I was overwhelmed and am not ashamed to say, I got help from Citizen's Advice, engaged a solicitor who in turn contracted all the admin out to a legal assistant. It was a bloody godsend. I am not in UK, so don't know if you can do that there. But worth checking out all the same.

Yes , I see what you mean. Hard not to get stressed though 😬

Age UK and the Alzheimer’s Society will help with most of this.
Been through similar with my father and Age UK were fabulous (all in the middle of the very first lockdown).

Yeah we are just going to leave his car to rot on the drive to be honest. We can’t afford to insure another one.

I didn’t realise his NI number would be on statements. We can’t get one though until they have approved the POA.

I email twice a week. I have made a complaint last week as it’s causing my dad distress. Hardly any of his clothes fit, and the ones that did the last home lost. he needs to buy more but I can’t access his money. I don’t have a penny spare to get him any.

I really, really feel for you. I went through something very similar a couple of years ago.

It's quite a common issue that people can't pay care home fees until the sale of a home. Although my dad was self funding he had a social worker because of a similar situation to your dad. The council have a deferred payment system. It's a loan that you pay off when the house is sold. It is complicated and it totally scrambled my brain to organise it, but that is your way out of the situation. Care homes don't get involved in it, but councils do, and will.

Age UK were quite helpful but it's hit and miss who you get on the phone. You just have to keep trying. I wish you luck!

Went through all of this two years ago. Father now in a care home but I had to unravel his finances and his house which was a nightmare.

My only tip here is when you get POA go IN PERSON to your Dad's bank. Do NOT try and do it over the phone. I had plenty of compensation given to me because I was being told duff information from offshore call centres who I could barely understand and who often didnt understand what a POA can do.

I was asked to send the whole of the POA, told to send the original ONLY etc etc from people who should have known better. There should be a seperate telephone number at the big banks for POA queries. Its complex and more and more of us are having to register ourselves.

He had numerous bank accounts hence the fact I am a bit of an expert!

I'm in a similar position albeit thankfully currently have sufficient cash in relative's bank account to pay for the next few months whilst waiting for flat to sell.
I also signed a guarantor form but as power of Attorney, ie as representative for relative not as myself. Therefore its not my debt, it's his.
Please inform the care home that you are just the representative and are not ordinal liable for the debt. They will get their money when the flat sells.

I need to defend my husband here @AnotherTroyforHertoBurn

He’s put up with more shit over the last year, quietly, than most people would be able to stand.

My dad has caused us significant financial loss with the fire, put our children at risk with his behaviours while living with us, almost lost dh his job with all the time off he’s had to take to deal with him.

He sat up for hours at night watching my dad while he was with us, reassuring him, keeping him safe. He’s showered him, cleaned up his shit.

My dad needs us to visit everyday or he’s unmanageable. I can’t handle it every day as my dad can be incredibly abusive sometimes. Every other day, dh takes an hour and a half from when he should be doing over time, meaning that he works until 11pm, and goes to visit my dad and sits there being called all the names under the sun, gets accused of stealing his money, gets told he’s a waste of space and should be dead (the same as I get), and he does it with a smile on his face, never says anything as he knows it’s the illness talking and that if we didn’t visit, it sends my dad spiralling downhill.

The only things that have pushed him to his limits is when my dad tried to feed the baby a lithium hearing aid battery and could have killed her when I was sat there with them and I looked away for a second to tie my dads shoe and now the thought that he’s been through all this, for me, and there could be a possibility that we could lose everything he’s worked himself into exhaustion to get just because of my dad. It’s hard to be quietly annoyed in those situations. In fact, he’s not shouting. He’s just incredibly upset and frustrated that life is like this. It’s unfair.

And that’s not mentioning that he’s been looking after me too, and the children and house as well as working when I’ve been ill.

Not a lot of people would have put up with what he has and keep going. I don’t think I would have coped like him, I can’t. He does what he can trying to sort out all this shit as well, but there are only so many hours in the day and he has to prioritise work or we are screwed.

I did go in person.

They wouldn’t speak to me, said they didn’t deal with it in branch and gave me an email address.

He does have the cash in the bank to pay for some months.

I am just scared of the flat not selling.

Hence wanting deferred payment to give more time.

and thanks for this - I will speak to them again re the guarantor

Who is holding up the poa, is it the oog or the bank. The staff need to asess his behaviou and its not fair on him or you if all he does is upset you when you visit, the nurse can speak to his doctor to try and manage this if they can. Its not up to you or your dh to manage his mental health or behaviour.

@Horological having just been through this with mum I found the opposite, the council did everything to wriggle out of taking a charge over mums house but the home itself did.
That was all organised by the Social worker that was allocated to us.

You might have a problem with values though as both options need to ascertain there's enough equity in the property to take the risk.

A couple of other points, £1,200 seems steep for dementia care for a week, mums was initially £950 Crowborough SE and now she's moved closer to a much nicer place in the NW it's £900 both on a room rate basis not individual care needs.

And you definitely are not stupid, it's both confusing and draining

From what I understand you have to play hard ball with banks for them to act on POA. They say they can't deal with it in branch - but they can, by helping you speak to the right person within the organisation. One friend walked into her local branch with enough food and drink for the day and said she'd stay there until it was sorted. It was sorted that day.

It's a disgrace they way they act; I would image a very high proportion of POA need to be enacted (or whatever the phrase is) quickly as things are in crisis, yet they spend months getting around to them.