Power of attorney and spending money

[Siriisatwat]

Hi,

I’m in a bit of a state at the mo, my dad is in hospital. He clearly has some form of dementia but so far hasn’t been assessed (he lived 3 hours from me until I brought him to stay here a few weeks ago so I could help him).

He’s had quite a rapid decline over the last week.

He’s only got two changes of clothes with him. I cannot afford the petrol or time to do a six hour round trip to pick him up more. And to be honest, he’s lost a lot a weight in the last few months so all his clothes are hanging off him and he doesn’t like spending money so all those now too
big clothes are years old.

I’ve been trying to take him shopping but he will not spend a penny, he’s always been tight. I finally managed to get him to buy some t shirts last week but the next day he made me return them as he wanted his money back.

I have power of attorney and I have his wallet here.

Would I be able to go and buy him some clothes with his card?

I don’t have the money myself to get any for him so that’s not an option, I would have to
use his account.

And she said he clearly doesn’t need to be in a care home yet and we can’t force him into one, but in the next breath said he was very confused.

So I said, okay, so what do I do about his car then? He’s not going to listen when we have to move his car down here when his house completes and I tell him he can’t drive.

She said the same thing the GP did, that sometimes people who shouldn’t be driving do

This is why we need some sort of diagnosis!!

Currently there is nothing on his medical records to say he can’t drive.

I mean, I’d never let him drive again. but when he’s accusing me of trying to get his money to anyone that will listen, can you imagine when I refuse to let him have his car?

Everytime I speak to a social worker or a doctor I speak about his driving and I always get the same answer that they can’t help.

I’ve reported to the DVLA. But they contact the GP. And like I said, nothing on his medical records say he’s unfit to drive.

His old neighbours called the police, they were told there was nothing they could do.

I’m seeing him again this afternoon.

I am so frustrated at trying to get him some help.
This isn’t fair on any of us.

I usually try wnd work with my colleagues but with something like this I would just refuse to get involved, do not offer to take him home or get his house or flat ready, this situation needs a multi disciplinary meeting. It would be unsafe to discharge him knowing he is confused and a risk to himself and others. Step back, keep saying no and speak to PALS if you are not getting anywhere. Write a letter stating your concerns to his consultant, social worker, GP and PALs stating this is an unsafe discharge. Then you have something on record.

I feel so sorry for you. I was in the same situation with an elderly relative, I ended up on a cardiac ward with the stress. Her GP was phoning me as I was being admitted demanding I do this that and the other. When I got home 5 days later I was in the house for less than half an hour and they were on the phone again. The stress is hard to understand unless you have been through it yourself.

In the end we engaged a private social worker who did a proper assessment, found an excellent home and got her admitted. The holdup was getting the DOLS assessment but the home did a brilliant job of distracting her until they had the order.

I couldn't get social services to help, I even told them I was going to reject the POA and leave them to it. Their response was they'd cancel her carers, that she was paying, and use a company they had a contract with. I said it was unfair as she knew them and they knew her and as she was paying she should have who she wanted. They just said if it was so important to me I had to carry on organising it myself and not cancel the POA. I don't swear but on this occasion I will say they were absolute bastards about it all.

Don't let them discharge him to you, he doesn't live there, it isn't his home they need to sort out some respite while things get sorted out.

Good luck.

Oh I know, I’ve made it clear he cannot come back here.

And that he needs an assessment into his cognitive state.

Plus, we move house on wednesday. We are going to stay with my in laws from tomorrow while dh takes everything apart. So there’s nowhere for him to come back to.

And my new house isn’t suitable for him, there is no separate room downstairs for him to sleep in. He can’t have a bed and a commode in the same room the children are in all day.

Do you think he will remember where he lives? I’ve been on hospital transport where some old confused lady was trying to be dropped off. She didn’t have or couldn’t find her keys and even though driver had her address she was very distressed as according to her she lived miles away. If she had keys maybe they just let her in regardless but in end everyone on bus ended up back at hospital trying find a ward take her as out patients was closed for the day. Or are they expecting you to collect on discharge?

Last time they were so desparate to get rid of him, they stuck him in a taxi they have a contract with and sent him back with a commode.

No, he’s not sure of this address, he’s only ever visited a few times (we’ve only lived in this area here 18 months) and he doesn’t know this area at all.

And his own “home” is 3 hours away.

He doesn’t have a GP there anymore - the one here fully registered him, not just temp as it was clear he needed help. First dr I spoke to seemed good - the one they sent out later that day? She as the one who asked if I could just lock him in a room and kept saying “I’m not sure why I’m here”.

So he would be dumped 3 hours away with no care.

@ancientgran I’m so sorry it made you so ill. The stress of trying to get someone help is just enormous.

It really is. The system is so flawed and if I had £1 for everyone who said, "Just get her in a home." I'd be well off instead of wound up.

Good luck and do let us know how you get on. I would love to hear you have got the help you should have and if you haven't we can at least give you a bit of moral support.

Oh, “just put him in a home”.

It’s all I hear. I’d like that £1 too.

I’m just fed up of people from the hospital phoning and me having to repeat the same things, day after day.

Are you sure your dad will have capacity to authorise exchange on his sale and purchase? This usually has to be done on the day of exchange even if all the paperwork has already been signed. It all sounds like a giant mess with your own move at the same time. I hope it all goes ok for you all.

@thecapitalsunited

Are you sure your dad will have capacity to authorise exchange on his sale and purchase? This usually has to be done on the day of exchange even if all the paperwork has already been signed. It all sounds like a giant mess with your own move at the same time. I hope it all goes ok for you all.

No idea. That’s all I can say right now.

@Siriisatwat

Oh, “just put him in a home”.

It’s all I hear. I’d like that £1 too.

I’m just fed up of people from the hospital phoning and me having to repeat the same things, day after day.

Have you had police issues yet? I used to get calls from the police asking me to stop her phoning them to report weird things.

In the end I would give the social workers phone number to the police, to neighbours or people from the church, just anyone who would phone me with complaints/concerns and ask them to let the social worker know as it would help me. Unfortunately it didn't but heyho I tried.

He called the police twice just before he went to hospital the first time (and then I brought him to my house after that).

He called them out twice saying people had broken into his house and a man had got in to the “secret room” (aka, his reflection in his mirrored wardrobe door that he thought was another man in a room he couldn’t get into).

They phoned me when his neighbour gave them my number, nothing happened. But
like I said, that was a few
days before he started getting really bad.

Just seen him.

Gave the same details AGAIN. I’m sick of the sound of my own voice now.

They are going to discuss with the consultant a temp bed and get the mental health team to assess.

I’m feeling so broken by it all.

The mental health team for the elderly can assess him if they cannot find any other reason for his acute confusion, at least he will not be getting discharged at the moment. If he is very confused and wearing his own clothes have the ward placed him on a DOLS in case he tries to leave. Just keep telling them he cannot go to your house, it is not his home and say his own house is not safe for him to be on his own, put it in writing.

No dols in place.

I had active POA when my afar started struggling to keep on top of his own finances - so didn't have l to wait for any assessment or deprecation of liberty status.

I think you have to be pragmatic- he needs pants and pjs and some clothes. Go and get some, get on to his bank with the POA (the original or a copy signed by a solicitor as a true copy. A card took a matter of days.

Oh and meant to add I got 5 copies of the POA signed and certified by a solicitor as many organisations want the 'original' - came in very useful. Solicitor asked for £10 a document or a donation to their charity, which at the time was dementia Revolution £20 x

@BigYellowHat

He has to have been assessed by a qualified HCP to have lost capacity in order for your POA to kick in. Under the Mental Capacity Act, people have the right to make unwise decisions (like not buying clothes that fit) and still be judged to have capacity. Speak to his GP/nurse/OT.

This isn't the case necessarily. I had POA before my dad officially lost capacity as he filled out the POA to start immediately as he was struggling with life admin, paying bills etc.

@Siriisatwat I have just read all your posts on this thread. Happy for you to pm me. I went almost exactly the same with calls to police, convinced he had been burgled, was being watched. He was in his early 60's.

My hearts breaks for you darling xx

Under the October 2021 Hospital Discharge and Community Support Policy and Operating Model:

"All persons leaving hospital should receive a holistic welfare check[footnote 4] to determine the level of support, including non-clinical factors like their physical, practical, social, psychological and financial needs"
and
"Before discharge a determination must be made about the status and views of any carers who provide care, including that they are willing and able to do so."
and
"For people where new mental health concerns are considered in light of discharge, psychiatric liaison teams should be contacted by case managers in the first instance to review and assess as appropriate."

Hospitals were given a bit of a green light during Covid to discharge people as soon as they no longer needed hospital treatment or care, like your dad, and tout the "Home First" approach where people are discharged back to their home for assessment before long term decisions are made. But this has to be done safely and following all the guidance.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/hospital-discharge-service-policy-and-operating-model/hospital-discharge-service-policy-and-operating-model if you have the strength to scamper through it.

Keep playing hardball. Your dad does not live with you: if they want to discharge him "home" they need to make the appropriate arrangements with his local social services and hospital transport. You are not willing or able to provide the care he will need to stay at yours. Your home is not safe for him (has it been assessed by anyone?). He has already had a failed discharge. He has new mental health needs that require assessment. Etc etc.

In order to discharge him I'd suggest they need to make it Pathway 2 with a discharge to a temporary care home or rehab ward where he can also have an assessment for his dementia.

Good luck, this must be so tough

Your home is not safe for him (has it been assessed by anyone?

Social services assessed (as well as a separate fall’s assessment) and agreed it would be safe with a commode and carers in to wash so he didn’t have to clamber up and down the stairs to the bathroom and risk a fall.

Only he doesn’t want to use the commode. So he either clambers up the stairs or stops eating and drinking so he doesn’t have to go to the loo.

So it’s not worked out.

And thank you for all that info

@Purplewithred thank you for all that info