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Elderly parents

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Original poster

Power of attorney and spending money

108 replies

Siriisatwat · 19/11/2021 19:17

Hi,

I’m in a bit of a state at the mo, my dad is in hospital. He clearly has some form of dementia but so far hasn’t been assessed (he lived 3 hours from me until I brought him to stay here a few weeks ago so I could help him).

He’s had quite a rapid decline over the last week.

He’s only got two changes of clothes with him. I cannot afford the petrol or time to do a six hour round trip to pick him up more. And to be honest, he’s lost a lot a weight in the last few months so all his clothes are hanging off him and he doesn’t like spending money so all those now too
big clothes are years old.

I’ve been trying to take him shopping but he will not spend a penny, he’s always been tight. I finally managed to get him to buy some t shirts last week but the next day he made me return them as he wanted his money back.

I have power of attorney and I have his wallet here.

Would I be able to go and buy him some clothes with his card?

I don’t have the money myself to get any for him so that’s not an option, I would have to
use his account.

OP posts:

Original poster

Siriisatwat · 20/11/2021 09:36

I’ve got no idea what the hospital have done. It’s really hard to get to speak to anyone.

I’m waiting outside now, my visiting slot is 9:45 so
i’ll try and speak to someone.

Because it’s so early I had to go to tesco. Just got dressing gown, joggers, t shirts, a couple of jumpers, pair of pjs, underwear and toiletries but it was almost £100. My dad thinks primark is excessive - he’d bloody kill me if he knew I bought him clothes from Tesco, but I couldn’t change my booked visiting slot so didn’t have the choice.

He’s the old cliche of moths flying out the wallet, I don’t think he’s spent £100 on clothes in his life. Cheapest dressing gown was £30 - he’d throw a fit!

OP posts:

crimsonlake · 20/11/2021 09:42

I feel for you in this situation and he is very lucky to have you.
I am concerned that he is going ahead with purchasing a new house when in all likely hood he actually needs full time care, it sounds as if supported living should really be the next step.

Goldi321 · 20/11/2021 09:47

Just keep the receipts in case you have to explain to anyone (which you won’t). Sorry you are going through this, you have definitely acted in his best interests and done what I would have done. Sounds like he needed his dignity back after being in hospital gowns and this is the first step towards getting back to normal (whatever the new normal may look like).

BleuJay · 20/11/2021 09:53

Keep an exercise book to write down purchases you make from his bank account. Date, retailer, product and amount. Keep the receipts in an envelope that you can keep inside the exercise book.

Keep the book in the same place such as a specific drawer.

BeyondMyWits · 20/11/2021 09:57

@Siriisatwat that sounds perfect.

He is very lucky to have you looking out for him. Please remember to take care of you too. Good luck with all the moving.

Original poster

Siriisatwat · 20/11/2021 10:02

@crimsonlake

I feel for you in this situation and he is very lucky to have you. I am concerned that he is going ahead with purchasing a new house when in all likely hood he actually needs full time care, it sounds as if supported living should really be the next step.

we need to get the sale done as it’s just easier for us if the house/all his stuff is nearby if we have to rent it out/sell up.

It’s a nightmare with it being so far away.

OP posts:

Original poster

Siriisatwat · 20/11/2021 10:02

Just sat waiting for the drs they want to speak to me alone.

OP posts:

BigYellowHat · 20/11/2021 10:07

He has to have been assessed by a qualified HCP to have lost capacity in order for your POA to kick in. Under the Mental Capacity Act, people have the right to make unwise decisions (like not buying clothes that fit) and still be judged to have capacity. Speak to his GP/nurse/OT.

Roystonv · 20/11/2021 10:08

I too would be concerned about buying a house at this stage if it is unlikely he will ever live there but obvs don't know all the details. Could be a uti? Lots of help in mn on elderly parents, do have a look at it is a lot to take in. Best wishes.

Roystonv · 20/11/2021 10:12

P.S.. you are spending his money for his benefit so don't worry even if not 'officially' under POA, keep receipts, be sensible but do get sorted asap if larger more serious decisions/payments are due.

PragmaticWench · 20/11/2021 10:14

It sounds as though you're doing a great job OP, really feel for you as you have a lot on your plate!

There's an Elderly Parents board on here, lots of support on there and advice from people who have been through what you're going through.

Don't forget to take some time for yourself and your DC, your DF is being looked after by professionals.

Original poster

Siriisatwat · 20/11/2021 10:54

The house is all going through. Like I said, at the moment it’s just easier to buy the flat here because I can’t afford to go up and down.

But who knows what will happen.

The dr just wanted to take history, again. The same history I gave yesterday and the day before.

My poor dad is so confused.

He thinks my husband died and that I’m now living in a mansion with a golfer called Steve.

This is so hard. I just want my dad back. And that’s never going to happen.

I’m just sat in the car park sobbing.

OP posts:

Original poster

Siriisatwat · 20/11/2021 10:54

Can I get this moved to elderly parents board? How do I ask for that?

OP posts:

MNHQ

JoMumsnet · 20/11/2021 11:27

@Siriisatwat

Can I get this moved to elderly parents board? How do I ask for that?

We're moving this thread over to our Elderly Parents topic now, OP.

Sorry you're going through such a hard time.

Original poster

Siriisatwat · 20/11/2021 11:40

Thank you

OP posts:

MrsAukerman · 20/11/2021 12:31

@BigYellowHat

There doesn't need to be an assessment or indeed any capacity issue for a POA to be used. I could act as POA for my spouse or friend if we wanted to.

Mrsmch123 · 20/11/2021 12:33

@Siriisatwat you sound like you have had a really hard time! With regards to your dad it's frustrating that you have to re go over information that's already been provided. I always think that people with loved ones go through a grieving process as the person they love is no longer the same but they are still physically there. Dementia is such a cruel illness. There is a chance that your dad may have delirium in addition to his dementia if he deteriorated quickly. Delirium can resolve. Take care of your self.

Original poster

Siriisatwat · 20/11/2021 12:39

He’s medically fit. No infections.

He can’t come back to my house as there are stairs and he keeps trying to climb them - and we are in the midst of moving and will be back and forth for the next ten days or so. It’s chaos and confusing him more.

He couldn’t go back to the house he currently owns - it’s too far away and we’d be back at square one with drs and trying to get a memory clinic referral.

His new flat, they are now saying possible completion on the 10th.

That’s if he can live alone.

When I spoke to the social worker yesterday they were saying a temporary placement until his flat is ready.

But we just don’t know what the situation will be.

The jr dr I spoke to today was taking notes for the consultant.

My poor dad, he’s so confused. Hospital makes that worse. But he can’t be here because it’s not safe for him.

I just don’t know what to do.

OP posts:

Original poster

Siriisatwat · 20/11/2021 12:46

Sorry - the issue with the stairs is that he has terrible arthritis in his knees. He’s very unstable and cannot walk up stairs.

We’ve had the falls people out, he’s got a frame, SS gave us a commode but he stopped eating and drinking for a couple of days as he was refusing to use it and then he would try and climb the steep stairs to the bathroom when we were asleep.

But hospital said he wasn’t dehydrated and no UTI or other infections.

Medically he’s fit as a fiddle. Dr who did tests last time said he’s as fit as a man in his 50s (he’s 85, always been very fit and healthy).

OP posts:

countrygirl99 · 20/11/2021 12:52

If.my recent experience of getting a temporary placement for dad is anything to go by it will be close to completion on the 10th. Prepare for him to be stuck in hospital for a coupleof weeks while they find one.

PragmaticWench · 20/11/2021 13:41

Whatever you do, don't allow the hospital to discharge him until a full assessment of needs has been made and a care package agreed. A temporary care home might be a good idea if it can be sorted.

Original poster

Siriisatwat · 20/11/2021 13:50

@PragmaticWench

Whatever you do, don't allow the hospital to discharge him until a full assessment of needs has been made and a care package agreed. A temporary care home might be a good idea if it can be sorted.

Yeah, we made that mistake ten days ago.

He was in after a fall, declared medically fit the next day. I was guilt tripped into taking him home, they kept telling me how awful it would be to be in a temp care home, he’d have to isolate due to being discharged from hospital. They made me feel terrible. They sent him home that evening with a commode in hospital transport.

Social worker rang the next day, said she was sorry, it was an unsafe discharge and they put emergency carers in place. But obviously, that didn’t work out.

I won’t make the same mistake again.

I feel so guilty.

My 19 year old has just been telling me he feels awful because every time me and dh left the room, my dad was launching into tirades about how we were plotting to steal all his money from him.

My dad is fixated on money, he’s always hoarded it. His neighbours used to tell me that he was always saying I was trying to take all his money. They knew it wasn’t true but money is honestly the one thing he cares about in life above everything else.

I know it’s illness talking but it hurts so much, I’ve tried to help him and it does feel like a slap in the face.

OP posts:

KittenCatcher · 20/11/2021 13:54

Is he realistically going to be able to live alone in a flat, if he is still very confused and the doctors dont think he has capacity then he wont be able to agree to selling up and buying a flat, do you have welfare POA as well as finances. I would wait and see what the doctors, social services and therapists suggest for his future care, he needs a full care needs assessment and mental capacity assessment before he is discharged from hospital.

Original poster

Siriisatwat · 20/11/2021 13:54

Social services came here the day after he came home and did a full assessment but that was just for his physical needs - I’ve had a hell of a time trying to get the ball rolling on any cognitive diagnosis. No one seems to care.

The GP who came out was awful. When said I was terrified that he would fall down the stairs in the middle of the night or unlock the front door and walk out, she asked if I could lock him in the room he was sleeping in.

She even left the memory test for me to do as she said she had to leave.

She said she was going to refer to the memory clinic, but when I spoke to her the next day and she called the ambulance, I asked her did she do it, and she said “no, no point now he’s going to hospital”.

I feel like I’ve been banging my head against a brick wall.

OP posts:

Original poster

Siriisatwat · 20/11/2021 13:58

@KittenCatcher

Yes we have both.

Solicitor has said that as he signed all the paperwork, they don’t have a problem with it going through. He’s just waiting for exchange of contracts now. The place he’s buying here is cheaper than the one he’s selling and fees are coming out of proceeds.

I know he probably won’t end up living there, sadly.

We have a couple of weeks before exchange anyway. So if it is very apparent he needs care, we’d still have to sell it at some point anyway, or rent it out to help pay for the care home along with his savings.

The latter would be far easier to do with a flat that wasn’t 3 hours away.

OP posts:

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