The second new shiny 2019 thread ...

[MereDintofPandiculation]

... for anyone caring for elderly parents. Come and join us to ask for, or to give, sympathy, ask for advice, or have a good rant.

[Grace212]

Dint thank you

I've been on medication for anxiety and depression for 20+ years. Not sure there is any more the doctors can do.

Yolo I suppose a lot of this depends on how far you are prepared to push investigating the case...they will cover their arses sooooo much.

Jace hope you are fully recovered, thank you for the cat pic.

Minty yes I fed dad as well. I wasn't working at the time, but you could see the relief of the nurses when someone turned up to do that!

[maddywest]

Hello, long time lurker, think I'm probably going to be joining in more and more...

Mum is living in a residential care home. She has ongoing mobility issues (can't walk without her rollator, falls if she tries), pain from arthritis, especially in her hands which sometimes she can barely use - keeps dropping things. Longstanding depression, as well as more recent 'understandable' depression about her situation now. She has always been a very negative person, constantly moaning about everything. Over the last couple of weeks she developed a very bad UTI which caused some delerium, agression and anger - this is being treated with antibiotics. She has also developed a really horrible itchy rash which has spread over all her body and is driving her mad - she's not sleeping, itching all the time, it's awful. The doctors have been out to her a few times and prescribed various things, they don't know what the rash is but do think that the current regime of medication will work in time. The care home called the dr again this morning, but the dr didn't think there was any point visiting as the meds should start working soon. This has enraged mum who thinks noone cares about her or is doing anything to make her better. Which isn't true at all and is hard to hear. She is being horrible to me as well as the carers - I do understand why she would feel like this and I have been to see her nearly every day for the last couple of weeks while she has been ill (and I do realise a lot of the horribleness has been caused by the UTI). Today when she phoned to tell me about the doctor not coming and nobody doing anything to help I was sympathetic but said something along the lines of the doctor must be confident that the medicine will work soon, she hung up on me.

I don't know what to say to her. And I don't want to visit her today.

and I don't really know what I'm asking...

[yolofish]

oh maddy none of us really know what we're asking. It's a bloody hard road, no map, sat nav takes you down wrong turns, and even having RAC membership doesnt always help! And I don't want to visit her today do you have to? really, actually? if there is nothing you can do to make her feel better than maybe take a little bit of space so that at least you might feel better. That learning to look after yourself bit is the hard thing, it goes against everything we think we 'should' be doing, but I think if you are a longtime lurker you will see that eventually we all have to end up doing it somehow...

[maddywest]

Thank you so much yolo, no I don't have to visit her, but you know the guilt. I'm going to leave it for tonight and see if anything really bad happens. Yes I have learned a lot from this thread over the last few months, and chipped in occasionally if I felt I could contribute. Me and my brother have a saying a bit like your 'cockroach', we say ISBIS - it's shit because it's shit - some things are just crap and we can't do anything about it.

[thesandwich]

Yesnota we need a vortex at the fayre!
Thanks for the good wishes- still under the weather but so much more fortunanate than most of you as I dont have work to worry about now.
grace it is still really early days- howdo you take care of yourself?
yolo hope today is better for you.
jace 🌺🌺 hope something goes right today.
thigh you must be so knackered and worn down by all the crises. No wonder little things flatten you.
Wise words maddy from yolo- youvego to keep something in the tank. And it is so hard when you can’t fix things.
And dint hope you are enjoying the sun in your garden and your df is being well cared for.

[Grace212]

maddy big hugs to you

sandwich apols if really stupid question, but when you say "it's still early days" I'm wondering what you mean?

[thesandwich]

grace I meant early days in terms of losing your dad, for you and your dm. Have you considered counselling? Could that help?

[Grace212]

sandwich ah, I see.

I'm over losing my dad. I don't think mum will get better than she is now, in fact I'm really impressed by how well she is doing, bless her.

Where I need help is "having another human being feature frequently in my life". I don't think a counsellor can help with that. I am doing some meditation and reading some Buddhist material which has been quite soothing today.

[JaceLancs]

Just been to DF nursing home to deliver cake candles balloons flowers and presents for DM birthday tomorrow
I’m working in London so can’t be around
DF was quite animated tonight and has been up in wheelchair so hope he’s not peaked and sleeps all through the celebration

[VentingDaughter]

For background: DM, 90, had a mildish stroke 8 years ago which leaves her unable to write or deal with numbers, mild speech problems, becoming increasingly forgetful. I've ranted on here previously, mostly about her ability to moan for England.

She's in hospital currently, admitted for low blood pressure and stomach problems which turned out to be a blockage in her gut plus infection. Hospital were unsure whether they could deal with it medically and ruled out surgery as she probably wouldn't survive, and they were talking about palliative care and a DNR directive if they couldn't sort it out. However, slightly to everyone's surprise, they did. They have also discovered what seems likely to be a tumour in her bladder but they don't seem to think it's an urgent issue and, again, wouldn't contemplate surgery.

The current issue is that they could discharge her but she's very unwilling to walk - previously she had reasonably good mobility with a three-wheel walker, but she can barely shuffle more than a couple of yards at the moment. Getting her up to wee, even with bringing a commode to her, is a major undertaking.

I've therefore been with her in hospital a lot, and generally speaking that's OK. I find myself much better able to cope with her moaning when she genuinely has something to complain about. But increasingly visits are totally draining, as her dementia is noticeably worse and basically it's exactly the same conversation going round and round in a loop the entire time I'm with her. She's also fairly clearly complaining for the sake of it; if she wants something she goes on and on about it, but I swear she's almost disappointed if she gets it and has to stop complaining. The poor nurse was totally bemused today as he said she'd proclaimed that she loved coffee, so he went off to get it for her, whereupon she spurned it with loathing and said she hated it. She needs to drink as dehydration is what caused the bowel problem in the first place, but it's really hard to persuade her to do so because she doesn't want to have to pee. As for food - when it comes she loudly proclaims she doesn't want that, that she never eats, etc. It's OK if I'm there because I can bully persuade her into eating at least something, but again the nurses just don't have time.

She's constantly saying she wants sherry/whisky, again because she knows she can't have them in hospital. So nowadays my constant refrain is that she must eat and drink properly and practise her walking so she can go home and neck sherry to her heart's content. Fingers crossed that it works, not sure how much more of this I can take, but I know how dreadfully boring it must be for her in hospital and I know she probably wouldn't eat and drink if I'm not there to push her. Ho hum.

[pineapplebryanbrown]

Yolo that's very kind of you re the wheelchair. My bff is in Chislehurst so maybe not far from you. However, before checking in on the thread i got something a travel wheelchair on eBay. If it's shit i will send it back. That's so kind of you.

How did your hair dye battle go? I'm used to dealing with the grey stripe, it's the sprouting white eyebrow hairs that terrify me. I'm rapidly becoming Dennis Healey, when i really wanted to be lovely Tony Benn. Or J-Lo.

[notaflyingmonkey]

VentingDaughter our mothers sound like the same person. Doesn't want to drink as doesn't want to wee, therefore gets ill through dehydration. Each of the eleventy billion times I have tried to persuade her to drink water especially in the hot weather she tells me she doesn't like the taste. The amount of times I have been with her when doctors tell her she needs to drink more, and she does this 'oh really, well that's easily fixed' and then complains to me when they walk away.

Personally because I am a hard faced bitch I wouldn't sit and try and coax her to do anything as it sounds like she is pulling you in, dementia or no.

[VentingDaughter]

Yes, she is trying to pull people in, but she has least chance of succeeding with me. By being pretty robust I'm the one who can get her to eat and drink (a bit) or to take her medicine. Although her dementia seems noticeably worse, she seems quite clever about asking for things she thinks can't be supplied, or making out that everything's awful and nothing can be done about it. When I bring in a book she proclaims she doesn't want to read it because she knows it off by heart: so I asked her who was the murderer in a detective novel I brought in, she went strangely deaf but stopped that particular moan.

For all that, and for all the fact that I've always had a complicated relationship with her, when it looked as if she might die imminently I was unexpectedly upset. I guess that ultimately 90 years of having her as my mother overcomes the last few years.

[maddywest]

Thanks for your kind words people, looking back I don't know why I felt it was necessary to write a novel-length post detailing my Mum's ailments, so apologies for that! I didn't go and see her yesterday, but got a call from the care home at 10.30 saying she'd had a fall - not injured, but it will upset and enrage her further, understandably. I think that's part of the problem, all her anger and desperation is completely understandable, although people are doing everything they can to help.

nota and venting I know exactly what you mean about 'pulling you in', but I'm the only person she's got in this town - apart from all the people who work in the care home, of course. Two weeks ago she quite liked a few of them! And Grace I know what you mean about suddenly having another human being featuring frequently in your life - I do actually have quite a lot of human beings in my life (although none dependent on me), but my mother wasn't a frequent feature until recently so I'm struggling with that. And she is in a care home - we lasted 6 months with mum having carers coming in to her home in a different city, but it never looked like being a long term solution. Hats of to those of you having the same issues plus having to organise all the stuff the care home does yourselves shudder.

[MereDintofPandiculation]

Grace - "I've been on medication for anxiety and depression for 20+ years. Not sure there is any more the doctors can do." No, I wasn't suggesting doctors. There comes a time when you have the complete tool-set for depression, inadequate though it is, and it's down to you. I've learned to look out for me making really good practical reasons why I can't possibly go out and meet these people today, and check that it's not the depression telling me to hide in a hole - what works for you will be different, but you can't do anything unless you recognise there might be a need to, and that's often the hardest part. Hence my comment.

maddy I suspect you're asking "why can't someone make this stop?" I made the mistake of telling dad his mobile phone calls to me, on the same network, were free - so yesterday, on top of making 5 phone calls averaging 30 mins each all as a direct result of him moving into a nursing home, I had to field another 3 calls from him just wanting a chat. And this morning another, before I'd even had breakfast! But I can't ask "How do I stop my father phoning me when he's lonely or worried?" I suppose it something to do with rage/despair at seeing one's last few years of healthy life vanish, while knowing that to walk away would make it difficult to respect oneself as a decent person.

venting a lot of that strikes a chord. Not drinking to avoid need for urination, learned helplessness. I'm looking for solutions too.

[MereDintofPandiculation]

Sorry about double posting- computer said "network protocol error" so I assumed it hadn't posted.

[Grace212]

Dint "I've learned to look out for me making really good practical reasons why I can't possibly go out and meet these people today,"

do you mean meeting people connected with elderly parent stuff, or just people generally?

Venting I really feel for you. these nurses with their coffee are so lovely.

when dad was in the hospital and didn't want to eat, they even started trying to find stuff like differently cooked potato etc. It was weird, because it was at the point where dad knew he was dying, I knew he was dying, but none of the medics would consider it, nor would mum.

So I wasn't going to hassle him to eat, but sometimes the nurses would come by and say "oh, hmm, maybe he will like something else, that can't be all he eats for this meal" and then bring it along. Such kind people. And they must have extraordinary mental strength too.

[MereDintofPandiculation]

Grace Just people generally. "If I drop out of this planned meet, I could get X done" "the weather forecast is fog - it would be better not to travel"...if I do this habitually it all comes down to wanting to hide in a hole, and if I push myself out, not only do I enjoy myself, but I stop the slide. You may have different signals, and different actions you need to take.

[RosaWaiting]

hello everyone

this is more of a "What Would You Do" so apologies if not in the right section, but I thought more people here would have experience.

My elderly mother lives alone. Doesn't go out much. Doesn't do any social media or anything, is very conscious of security and very anxious about it.

There seems to be a spate of thefts - mostly car thefts - going on in the area. I know because I'm on social media. I don't know whether to tell her or not. It would make her more anxious and I'm not sure she can do any more to keep safe. Also, she does need to walk to shops and so on and of course in theory something could happen to her then, and she and I need to stop worrying more than we do!

should I tell her? being brutally honest, I don't want her to get to that point where she never goes out alone. I have a couple of friends who are taking their elderly parents to the shops every weekend etc and I don't want to get in that cycle of dependence. So my fear is partly selfish

[MereDintofPandiculation]

I wouldn't tell her about anything which is unlikely to affect her and which she can't take any practical steps to avoid. If she doesn't have a desirable car parked on her driveway, she's unlikely to be targeted by the growing trend of breaking in to steal car keys.

I presume her house security is up to scratch. She probably doesn't have obvious trappings of being a worthwhile place to burgle, so is probably relatively safe on that front. Her main danger would be confidence tricksters of all sorts - tell her how to respond to people offering to tarmac her drive, or telling her to transfer all her money to a safe account whose details they'll give her (and remind her it's OK to lie or to be rude) and get her to refer everything to you.

The most at risk of violence group is young men aged 16-25. Elderly people have a relatively low risk, even correcting for their tendency not to go out at night. (remembering from Home Office research about 20 years ago, but I don't expect that to have changed much).

[RosaWaiting]

Mere thank you

no, no car. Burglar alarm and good strong door.

I thought that too about young men and about elderly being low risk but she doesn't believe it. Sometimes she needs to walk with a stick but she thinks it makes her a target so doesn't take it or doesn't go out on those days.

she sometimes goes to the high street with another elderly friend so she won't be totally limited to weekends if she waits for me, but I'm also thinking there's no point worrying her with things. She does read the local paper so has some knowledge.

[Grace212]

Thanks Dint

I feel mega evil this evening.

I've had mum on the phone talking about a memorial service for dad....I am over it. My brain is full of work, looking after mum stuff, looking after my own mental health....I got annoyed with her and said I was feeling it very unfair that I can't get on with my life without planning more stuff in his memory.

she's already talking about family only memorial on his birthday as well.

Perhaps it makes me a terrible person but I don't want to do all this. I just want to get on with my life. I told her bluntly, perhaps it means I didn't love him enough, I don't know. But I just feel ...I am a mid 40s woman. I lost my dad, it was shit. Now I'm ready to move on. I understand her life will never be the same but does that have to impact on me so much?

I'm not saying this just for me. My parents had friends for whom there was a funeral, a memorial, another memorial later....I don't get it. Fine if it makes people feel better but is it terrible that I don't want to do this?

[MereDintofPandiculation]

Yes, I know well that thing of elderly parents being so worried about one risk (usually minuscule) that they put themselves at risk in a different way - eg not using walking stick so as not to be a target, and then falling over and breaking a hip.

"Information from the Home Office Data Hub on the age of victims of police recorded violence, taken from 34 forces, shows that younger adults were also more likely to be victims of violent crimes recorded by the police in the year ending March 2018 (Figure 9). For example, while those aged 20 to 29 years made up around 13% of the population2, they were victims in 26% of violence against the person offences recorded by the police. Older people and the very young were less likely to be victims. For example, those aged 80 years or over were victims in less than 1% of violent offences but made up around 5% of the population." www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/thenatureofviolentcrimeinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2018

[MereDintofPandiculation]

Grace no of course it isn't terrible to feel that way. People grieve in different ways. You need to detach and pick up on your life again, she needs to create ways of feeling close to him. Nothing wrong with either way. But she has no right to make you a role player in her grieving. I notice though that it's not just that you don't want to attend yet another memorial, but that you are feeling that being reminded of it is stopping you moving on - are you sure you are as over it as you keep telling us? Or are you not over it, but by burying it and ignoring it, you are able to move on and that in turn will finish the process for you?