DM (81)'s house uninhabitable and she's in denial - HELP!!!

[TheMadGardener]

Cross-posting between here and 30 days as I’m hoping to get more help.

Lots of background here, please bear with me as this will be VERY VERY LONG…My mother has always been “difficult” and with a massive tendency to deny or ignore anything awkward/unpleasant in the hope that if she does nothing, someone else will sort it out. Probably why, when her marriage broke down, she took herself home to live with my DGPs and dumped me and my DSis on them – DGPs did all the hard work of parenting, DM just lived in the same house but did her own thing. No matter how elderly DGPs got, they were always responsible for household bills and maintenance, DM not interested in responsibility.

Time went by. DGPs died 20 years ago and DM just went on living in their house. Technically the ownership of the house is still in dispute (they died intestate, DM has one brother she hasn’t spoken to in 40 years, he sent a few legal letters about house, DM ignored letters, he let things go as he is well off, she just went on living there.) House became dilapidated and now is getting to be a ruin. No central heating, for example, only electric heaters. DM only has pension but never did anything pro-active about getting help with house. Discouraged DSis and I from visiting. Only comes to see us if really pushed into it. Makes excuses why no one should visit her. Never phones us, we always have to phone her if we want contact. DM is now 81. Still drives (badly) but this is essential as ruinous house is in remote village with no shop.

DSis lives about 20 mins from her. DSis is single, lives in a tiny one-bedroomed flat, works in a high-pressure but not very well paid job in the NHS and is also studying for a degree in her spare time. DSis has done an awful lot for DM over the years, taking her out, doing shopping for her, helping her in lots of ways. Is allowed to pick DM up and drop her off from house but not go in.

I used to live 6/7 hours away from DM but now have moved only 90 minutes away. I am married with two DDs at secondary school and DH is undergoing treatment for Stage 4 bowel cancer which is incurable. Since we moved nearer I have also made efforts to see DM more and take her for days out but have not been allowed in house. She came to us for Christmas and I tried to get her to stay longer with us because I knew her house must be freezing in winter (I grew up there, so I know!) but she insisted on going home after 1 day. We constantly worried about the state of her house but she refused to engage in any discussion about moving house or the future.

Last week DM had a fall – Dsis had rung earlier to check that she had food, etc during the snowstorm and told her not to risk going out, but she typically decided to go out for a walk, fell and broke her ankle. DSis had to drive through a snowstorm to get her to A and E. Since then DM has been sleeping on sofa bed in DSis’s tiny flat insisting she wanted to get home although unable to do stairs and we know her house is freezing.

Today DM’s neighbour rang to say she could hear water gushing noises in the house. DSis went over and found a frozen pipe had burst and the whole of downstairs was at least an inch deep in water. Also on looking round found that the ceilings have collapsed in two of the upstairs rooms and there are big holes in the roof at the back so wet upstairs too. A window at the back of the house has fallen out and DM has put a sheet of plastic over it. DM now admits that the window and the ceilings happened ages ago but she didn’t mention it because she was “coping fine”. Of course she has no buildings or contents insurance!

DSis got a plumber friend to come round and turn the water off (no one could find the ancient stop cock) and rang me in tears saying she just couldn’t cope. DM is still insisting she will be able to go back and live there when her ankle is better. The house is completely uninhabitable and she has no money to fix it.Neither DSis or I have thousands spare to fix it. We both feel like everyone will think we are shit daughters for letting things get like this, but honestly she totally denies there is a problem and refuses to discuss any possible solutions. This is the first time anyone has been allowed in her house for years!

I am going to get her tomorrow to stay with me as DSis is at the end of her tether – DM has been very difficult during the week she has been staying with her. I have room in my house but lots of steep stairs and no bath/shower downstairs although I can temporarily fix her up a camp bed downstairs and there is a downstairs toilet. DH has just had a bit of a cancer relapse so this couldn’t have happened at a worse time.

Of course it is Saturday evening and no agencies are open till Monday now. I was thinking of ringing our local branch of Age UK for advice, and the council adult social care and housing lines. I don’t know how these things work, but who do I need to talk to? Ideally we want to find her somewhere to live. She can’t live in that house, it would be condemned. If we can agree with her NC brother to sell it, it will only be sold as a derelict fixer-upper (although it is in a prime tourist Second Homes area). She has other health problems as well as the broken ankle (some incontinence which she denies, a heart problem which she denies). She can’t drive at the moment. She can’t live permanently with either me or DSis as our homes are not suitable. She has no savings to pay for care. The worst thing is that she refuses to admit that there are any problems. What we need is someone (not me or DSis) who will just TELL her that she has to move somewhere else, accept health care. Apart from the total denial syndrome, she presents as having capacity. What do we do???? Help!!!

Good luck with it, OP. Sounds like it could be a long haul, but get your Mum sorted, then worry about the house.

Yes, good luck. Having your uncle's family on board is a good thing, not just with regard to the house, but more generally. That's a real step forward, as it removes most of the potentially nasty outcomes.

Good grief, I feel for you.
If I’m being honest, I actually think your DM has been incredibly selfish here. You have quite enough on your plate without having to deal with this on top of your DH being ill.
I would do the minimum your conscience allows, if that make sense. So no one wants to see her destitute but she’s clearly buried her head in the sand for years and now isn’t capable of organizing her own affairs. It as all incredibly sad but you need to look after yourself and focus on your DH and DC.

Any further progress TheMad? Probably going to be facing similar situation here in due course (but with a more distant family member)

Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made some progress. I have exchanged more phone calls and emails with adult social services, who were particularly appalled by the photos of the house I sent them (I think they were thinking maybe she just had some dirty carpets until they saw those ) They said they had red-flagged her case as urgent and gave me a number to call in the housing service. The lady I spoke to in housing was LOVELY and very sympathetic and, while we were talking, wrote down everything. I told her about my personal circumstances and my DSis's, and she reassured me that Housing would definitely not expect either of us to keep DM permanently at our places, which was a relief! Social services and housing are now liaising on DM's case and are having a meeting about her tomorrow and have promised to get back to me by Tuesday. So I am fairly hopeful that they are going to help find her somewhere. They know it is not permanent, that eventually when the house of horrors is sold there will be some capital to find her somewhere like a little retirement flat.

DM has now been with me for a week and it has been a long week! She is being fairly well-behaved, for her, but not at all grateful for all the stuff DSis and I are doing for her or all the phone calls we are making. She has always been like that, just taken for granted that people will sort out her problems and she will never have to. DH is being a trooper about putting up with her even though, with his cancer, stress is not good for him, but I am trying to keep her away from him. My DDs are being so helpful and patient and I have promised them massive rewards in due course for being so good putting up with her when they know their dad is ill. They are stars.

I have been in more contact with my aunt and cousins, though DM does not know yet that I am in contact with them. I found out that my uncle (who died two years ago) actually applied for and was granted letters of administration when my DGM died 20 years ago. (Aunt did not know this but has found out on going through his paperwork). However, although he then became administrator of the estate, he did not finish administering it, because he gave up when DM flatly refused to consider the house being sold. Now he is dead so someone else will have to apply to administer the estate and sell the house.

Another thing I found out, which gobsmacked DSis and I, is that apparently 20 years ago my uncle actually went round the house to SEE DM (I had no idea she had seen him). He told her he was administering the estate, suggested the house should be sold and offered to take LESS than his half share so that there would be enough for DM to buy herself a flat somewhere, because she needed the money more than him. Such a generous offer!!! And she told him no way she was leaving the house, no way she would co operate with selling it, and slammed the door in his face. WHY didn't she just agree???? Then the house would have been sold 20 years ago and she could have been living somewhere much more comfortable all this time. Bloody DM, she really has brought all this on herself.

Furthermore, all the cousins and my aunt are still being lovely and saying not to worry about the house situation yet but to concentrate on finding DM somewhere to live and then we can get together and sort out all the house legal stuff after that. I can't tell you how nice they are being and I really wish they had been in my life earlier. Very weird suddenly having all these extra relations!

Sorry this has been so long. Obviously it's still going to take ages to sort everything out. Hope your relative's situation doesn't get this complicated, gassylady .

That all sounds really promising, hopefully they will crack on with finding somewhere for her to live. Thank you for the detailed update.

They do sound like lovely sensible people. Hope your mums stubbornness doesnt impede things too much

Just wondering how things are going?

Just read the thread and wow u have do much going on. So sorry you dh is unwell :(
Im pleased you have found long lost family amd things are looking up on that front.. i am fully engrossed in this now and will be keeping a eye on the thread.x

Hi, just updating for those who wanted to know. Situation is still ongoing. DM is still in my spare room since about 4th March. However housing and social services have been pretty helpful. She now has both a designated social worker and a designated housing officer and thanks to a lot of form filling by me is now (just) registered on the local homechoice bidding site for housing with a high priority banding because of her age. She met (with me and DSis) with her social worker and although quite reluctant to talk about the state of the house, she did admit that she knows she can't go on living there. We keep finding out more stuff like apparently she hasn't had any hot water for 4 years apart from boiling kettles, but she didn't tell us when that stopped working either...

There was some debate about whether she would be eligible for the social housing because technically she has an interest in the derelict house and the service they were putting her forward for is really for people with no interest in owned property. But they decided she was eligible in the end. She is being totally passive about all the form filling and phoning and leaving it all to me, as I expected.

DSis is going to the house every couple of days to empty all the buckets under the holes in the roof where rain is pouring in. But we have agreed with cousins to sort out DM first before doing stuff about the house.
The council have already offered DM one flat which she turned down because it was too far from all her friends and DSis. I checked and apparently the fact that she turned that down won't count against her in priority for being offered other properties. Her housing officer is hopeful they will have found her somewhere suitable by the end of this week.

She's due back at hospital next week to have her broken ankle looked at. DSis and I are a bit nervous about when she gets the cast off and can drive again that she won't be quite as much at our mercy and may try to flee back to the derelict house. But now that social services are fully involved we hope we can stop that happening. I did point out to her quite forcefully that we have already put in a lot of work to get her rehoused and do not want to go back to square 1!
I am having to almost bully her to take showers and let me wash her clothes on a regular basis. (I just take them now).

Thanks for the update - it's good to know what sort of help is out there in this situation. My parents' house is a tip - not this bad, but then they are a good ten years younger. I can see the way it might go, though!

I love this thread, and the kindness shown by the unknown relatives. So many elderly people, or their close relatives find their lives made so much more difficult by others with their eye on the money. I hope overall OP will find her life enriched by discovering an extended family.

When my mother moved, following a fall, I was pretty brutal. I got her to sign a third party access form for her bank account, and the POA forms, and well as a mail redirect form to my address and various letters to pensions etc for her to sign informing them that her correspndence address was my address. I also moved relatively little stuff into her flat. Or rather I packed the vast majority of things she might consider precious into big plastic storage crates, so she did not feel they had been stolen. And paid for a cleaner and laundry service. Initially I also went down once a week to take her out, but insisted that she shower first.

The hoarding has stopped. Without access to bank details she is not able to order over the phone. She also, pretty quickly, lost interest in visiting charity shops, or buying great tins of make your own marmalade. I am not sure why. I think for ages she was clinging to independence and a weird vision of beng a perfect 50s housewife. (Though things were not nearly as bad we discovered there was no fresh food in her house, no heating/hotwater and the washing machine did not work.) After her move five years ago she somehow relaxed and reluctantly allowed help.

I would think a bit about what will be sustainable. It is far far easier to manage the financial stuff without interference, and certainly far easier than having to sort out chaos down the line. You also don't want the hoarding etc to start again. Once her accomodation is sorted perhaps it is time for an ultimatum. You and your DSis have been there for her, now she needs to do something for you. (Luckily we got DM to sign the POA first, so though the whole thing was really unpleasant, it was not a battle DM could win, and five years on she is happy in a clean and ordered flat.)

Aargh!!! DM is doing my head in bigtime. Not sure whether to scream or cry...

So, after hours of form-filling I got her registered for the local Homechoice social housing register, and started bidding on suitable properties on her behalf. After only one bidding cycle, she has been offered the very first property she bid for, which is amazing, a flat in her local town with a short walk to the shops, new kitchen, gas central heating, parking...perfect for a temporary home, right? NO. Having said that I could bid on it, she now says she wants to refuse it and won't live there as "it will be too noisy there". I have talked more with the very helpful housing people, and tried hard to point out to her that a) she is very lucky to have been offered a council flat so soon when some people are waiting years, b) if she doesn't like living in the town, it is not going to be her permanent home, it is only until the derelict house is sold, c) the housing people have said that if she refuses this one, it may be months before she gets another offer. She has until Wednesday to refuse or accept but she is still saying she doesn't want to live there. I am going to try to get DSis to reason with her tomorrow. She has now been living at my house for a month and to be honest I really couldn't face having her for months and months more.

To make matters worse, I finally told her today, when we were talking about the need to sell the house, that I had made contact with my cousins and they had said they would help with anything she needed. At the first mention of them she went BALLISTIC, started shouting about "you had no business contacting them, they're horrible, horrible people" and then stormed off to the spare bedroom and sulked there for the rest of the afternoon. She came down to dinner but is still not talking to me. Did I mention she was 81 and not a teenager???

She seems convinced that she can refuse the flat in the local town because magically she will be offered somewhere nearer the village where she has lived all this time. There are NO council flats in that village, it is full of holiday cottages and second homes. My sister says she seems to think we can magic her up a free house in the village plus deal with all the derelict house legal stuff without ever contacting the evil, evil cousins.

On the plus side, her broken ankle is better and she has had the cast/boot off, and is now only using one crutch. So far we have managed to persuade her she can't drive again yet (it is her clutch foot). My sister is holding her car hostage in her garage.

All this stuff is really stressing out DH who has been so good about her being here and he is really feeling crap lately. We have an oncology appointment tomorrow to discuss his latest scan but he has had so many symptoms lately that I know it won't be good news. My DDs are still being very good and helpful but obviously they are stressed out too. (They accept that granny is a bit bats and we must make allowances for her battiness!) I do think she is being selfish though, she knows DH is ill and she could make our lives much easier by accepting this flat and getting things moving.

We went to the derelict house last week. It is so awful. DSis on her days off work has been gradually packing up and washing clothes, towels, linens, crockery, cutlery, and getting rid of rubbish. There are piles and piles of newspapers, leaflets, old timetables, parish magazines from 2000, etc. Everything is wet and mouldy and ruined. Water still dripping through the ceiling into the buckets. The electricity had gone off and I had to empty rotting stinking food out of the freezer. Everything smells of mould and is filthy. There are some bits of furniture she wants to take with her, but I think 90% of the stuff in the house could go in a skip to be honest.

Hold my hand that DSis can talk some sense into her tomorrow, I'm off to have a quiet sob somewhere! Wonder if the social worker could help at all?

Def try the social worker - also if there is a vicar, solicitor, GP or anyone else 'official' that she might listen to then shamlessly recruit them. I've found my dad will ignore what I say, but if I say 'well, the Dr said that you must have a pendant/carer/whatever' he'll moan and groan but let it happen

Has your mum been back to the house to see how fucking awful it is?

You (or your DSis) should take her to the flat, then to the derelict house and tell her it’s one or the other. Her choice.

Make it absolutely clear that you can’t accommodate her any longer and she has 2 distinct choices. She has had many many opportunities to change her own situation before it became so bad and even now she has a perfect alternative lined up. She can have capacity and still make bad choices, but you don’t have to enable them.

Oh OP. You, kids, husband, sister and your new family sound amazing. At the end of this horrible stressful time, I hope that you'll be able to get to know and spend time with your cousins. If nothing else it's lovely that you've had the opportunity to get to know this part of your family.

Has your mum seen you and your sister breaking down? Crying? Does she have no acknowledgement of how this is affecting you. How is she with your husband? Does she not appear to understand how unwell he is and how her moving in is not helpful?

I keep everything crossed that you can resolve this, sooner rather than later. I really hope she takes the flat.

Oh OP - how hugely selfish of her. Where is she expecting to live? I really hope she can be talked round. I would be tempted to kick her out tbh, I know she's your mum but it sounds like she's getting too comfortable at your house.

I've recently had to get deputyship to support a relative, and obviously get her in a flat first and worry about everything else later, but it sounds like she is going to lose capacity/lost capacity to manage her affairs - getting her to sign power of attorney to you and/or your sister will be easier and less expensive in terms of solicitors bills than having to seek deputyship which is what you will have to do if she doesn't sign power of attorney to you before she loses capacity.

Thanks all. I fear the way she feels about me at the moment, hell would freeze over before she gave me power of attorney!! DH and his brother have POA for my lovely MIL (who has dementia). My DM would never do anything so reasonable... She wouldn't listen to GP or vicar, etc. She just might listen to DSis.

DM came with us to the derelict house. She obviously felt very uncomfortable about us seeing how bad it was. She couldn't wait to leave when it was time to go.

One good thing is that, now word has got round the village that she has left the house, three local people have already rung my DSis and said they'd be interested in buying the house of horrors when it eventually goes on sale/goes to auction. It is in a very desirable holiday location despite being a ruin. Maybe there'll be a bidding war!! :)

for you.

You deserve them!

@themadgardener also have all seem well needed. I sadly believe your dm does not want to see any other view than her own and even if she turns down this flat, she WILL expect a flat?house in her village to be found for her.

You are an entirely splendid person and your family sound lovely. The absolutely correct thing for her to do is to accept the house and let you concentrate on your DH and give him your attention exclusively...

I'd tell your social worker that you are finally at the end of your tether and they have to engineer her out of your house. They sound pretty good and seem to be moving towards this... I'm sure they want this outcome for you your family and your DSis.

Hope the medical appointment goes as well as it can.

How are you doing OP ?

UPDATE for anyone who is still following this thread. I hadn't realised how long it had been since I updated - quite a lot has happened.

So, DM insisted on refusing the flat she was offered in the local town, much to the despair of me, DSis, DH, the social worker, the housing officer, etc. I continued to bid each week for the next two/three weeks on a property per week. DH and I started going slightly stir-crazy having her in the house. I surreptitiously kept in contact with the Evil-Horrible-But-Actually-Very-Nice-Cousins, who emailed me copies of useful documents they had, like the letters of administration granted to my uncle in 1998 and his death certificate from 2016. I found a very nice and helpful property solicitor in my town and she made me a list of documents I would need to start sorting out the House of Horrors legal situation, all of which I have now managed to get together.

Then, about 10 days ago, we got a phone call from the housing officer offering her the perfect retirement flat in the next village to the one where she has lived all these years. These flats are like gold dust, as there are only four social-housing retirement flats in the village. It is a very nice flat with a lovely garden and only needs carpets and curtains and a bit of furniture to replace the stuff in the house of horrors which is too wet, rotten or worm-eaten to be salvaged. The flat was only available to people with a parish connection, which she has as she has lived in the next village all these years. Luckily, she jumped at it as she realised that a) it would mean she would be back in her home area where she knows everyone and b) she could not turn it down anyway as two refusals would have disqualified her from the housing register.

We couldn't believe our luck in her being offered this perfect flat! (I may have danced around the kitchen a little bit with the DDs out of DM's sight!!!) She had been staying with us for nearly two months and it was a LONG two months.

So, she went down last week (she is driving her crappy little car again now her broken ankle is healed) and signed the tenancy agreement and has now got the keys so she is COMMITTED and can't change her mind and run back to the house of horrors! I have to fill in her housing benefit application forms and some other forms this week.

Also, DSis has now gone on a very much deserved holiday for three weeks and cunningly asked DM to flat-sit for her while she was away, in order to get her out of my hair. She can't move into the flat until carpets, etc are sorted. That's another story because tonight I got a panicked message from DSis abroad saying that she just got a message saying that DM has gone out and agreed to get a loan (which she can't afford) to pay for expensive carpets from the most overpriced carpet shop in town (which is ridiculous as she can't afford them and this flat is only supposed to be interim anyway until the house is sold). This is so typical. I know at least two places in her nearest town where you can get very nice carpets for a third of the price. However, I am seeing DM tomorrow so urged by DSis I will try to talk her out of this madness, there must be some sort of cooling-off period on the loan/purchase. I am going to offer to go and do some painting in the new flat next week.

Also I have to talk very tactfully to her about the legal stuff. The very nice solicitor thinks the house situation may not be as complex as I thought. DM is the next person entitled to apply for replacement letters of administration for DGM's estate, but she can sign a document to appoint me to sort out the estate on her behalf. (All the cousins and aunt are on board with me doing this, also Dsis). Then the solicitor will apply for new letters of administration for me, and then I will auction off the house and settle the estate. I am amazed by how much interest locally there seems to be in buying the old ruin!! So fingers crossed that she signs without making a fuss, I will try to do it without actually mentioning any names of Evil Horrible Relatives We Don't Talk About.

So, hopefully the DM crisis is on the way to being resolved, and she will soon be living in a lovely flat with heating, non-leaky roof, accessible shower, hot water and all sorts of luxuries compared with the House of Horrors. She is talking about making curtains.

Our house is much happier with her gone, although it sounds awful to say it, but it's so lovely having the house to ourselves again. Also I have managed to get rid of the funky smell in the room she was sleeping in. On the down side, DH has started a new course of chemotherapy and is struggling with it, but at least we can concentrate on him now. Also I just had three job interviews and didn't get any of them, but hey ho. At least some of my problems are resolving, hopefully!

Sorry this was so long, well done to anyone still reading and thank you very much for support/advice so far.

OP
Thank you for your update.
Your DM is very lucky to have such wonderful daughters in her life.
Wishing you and your dh the very best outcome.
Hope you get the perfect job for you- you deserve it.

This sounds very promising. I’m on the other side of the fence and work with awkward people who are unrealistic about their abilities and really hope that her passivity kicks in over the sale of the house and she lets you get on with it