The age-old private vs state debate

[mistressploppy]

DS is only 7mo but I can't decide about schools for him; here's the low-down....

We live in a pretty posh village and the local school is small and has a very good reputation. Small class sizes (actually mixed age classes, that's how small it is). It's also about 3mins walk from our house. However, the expensive Prep school is also 3mins walk away. DH went to this school. It has a great rep too; it features in those glossy schools inserts you get in Tatler

We can afford the Prep school.

Trouble is, I am a bit of an inverted snob. I went to a big city state school and got good results, went on to uni etc etc. Had a fab time at school. DH - not academic like me - went to posh prep school and even posher boarding school, messed around, got nothing! (But has a fab job now)

I'm worried that if DS goes to a posh school he'll only mix with mega-priviledged kids and won't have a rounded perspective. We're so lucky that we're in the catchement for such a good primary. But should I deny him the chance to go to a school with more opportunities if it's within our grasp?

Think he's a bit young even for the mixed age class.

Its one of those questions that can only be answered by you according to your particular circumsances, your child and after visiting the schools how you feel about the school.

I chose indy education for many reasons but am in a very different situation. Very few of the children at the dc's school are mega priveliged, but our local primaries are huge, underfunded or SATS factories.

Didn't notice the age. Put name down for private if they have huge waiting lists then visit both when ds is about 2 and half.

You shoylkd know more about what sort of school you want for him by then.

Put his name down for the prep for now.

Closer to the time go and visit both and see for yourself. I believe a lot in gut instinct.

Skegness! Can't believe I'm even having to think about this, but the Prep place could be full already

My sugestion is look very carefully at what exactly you are paying for at the Prep.

Your village school sounds great. What extra does the Prep really offer?

TBH our DSs go to a Prep that is little better than my old village Primary school. They only go there because the Primary school nearest our house is an over subscribed Catholic one (we are not Catholic) or a Primary in special measures.

I do worry a bit about them not mixing with kids from ordnary backgrounds but really in your village it sounds as though the backgrounds of kids at the Primary will not be that diverse anyway.

I went to a village stare Primary and then on to private boarding school. I was about 1 year behind the kids who had been to Prep schools. That is, if anything, what a Prep delivers. A faster pace and more surity of passing exams to a private senior school of your choice. Better games facilities perhaps but not necessarily better teaching and not necessarily better behaviour. Usually class sizes are smaller in Prep but that is not the case here. Mixed aged classes are not great but I had them all throuh my Primary school years.

Normally I think state education is a Good Thing. Private school classes are often so small that they can be a bit narrow, but it sounds like your village school might fit this description too!

I think you have to work out what the "opportunities" you describe are. I'm not a fan of going private just for the sake of it (although my DD is going private to avoid not-very-local-sink-school we've been allocated). Some private schools have fantastic facilities, but there I am thinking mostly of secondary schools - does this prep school have great facilities too? If your son is academic will they channel that? If he isn't, will they help him to work out what he is good at and nurture that?

I should say that IME private schools don't have that many real poshos in them (and I went to one which the Daily Mail considers to be very posh). An awful lot will be the children of middle-class people who scrape together the fees each term.

And - not to throw a spanner in the works but- he is only a baby. It might turn out that neither school is a good fit for him, while somewhere else is great, when it comes to it!

Get him on waiting list for prep, then forget about it for a few years then look around both schools and decide which you think will suit your DC at the time.

You say you can afford private. Do you mean by that you can pay the fees without any difficulty or that you can scrape together the money by sacrificing luxuries such as holidays etc? I would say it is a mistake to cause yourself any financial worries if you have a good state option. Perhaps save the money for secondary ?

This is a really tricky question.

We went for the private option, because we both work FT and wouldn't be able to supplement what we saw as the deficiencies of the state system.

Don't regret it one bit tbh. DS is a singer. From an early age, he just sang all the time. We just thought he was a happy soul who liked singing.

However, the prep school he went to has a first rate competitive choir and a real strength in music. All boys play at least one instrument. They recognised his talent and nurtured it.

If DS hadn't been in an environment where music was encouraged and not viewed as cissy in anyway (and remember his parents were too dim-witted to recognise what is a genuine vocation) then I shudder at how different it might have been. He's got a musical scholarship now and is a chorister at the local cathedral. He sings around 10 times a week now, up and down the country.

The school enabled this. And it's the same for all the talents - be it sporting, chess, academic whatever. You won't get that in a state school.

Although I would be incredibly nervous of any school that features in Tatler ...

Also, in the interests of balance, I should tell you about DD. DD is both sporty and academic, so you'd think would just revel in the environment. But she is obsessed with designer labels and very material things, which comes of being in a very moneyed environment.

It's all silliness but unfortunately she doesn't know that. She thinks that real deprivation is not having an ipad when she already has a mac and an iphone ...

Some State schools do nurture talent, just as musical talent would be missed by some Preps.

Do also remember the long haul of private education, you may be able to afford Prep fees but can you also afford the senior school fees? Then what about when he goes to University will you be able to help him then? Then what about siblings?

However at present I would put his name down, and then go and visit when he's older, drag your DH around too. I would usually suggest looking at the private and then the state. Do remember privates often show off as innovations something that State schools already do.

Good luck!

It is very much down to your local situation and what the schools are like...

After a lot of soul searching we have opted for local village school for primary and we are saving for private for secondary - as I think this is where the most difference will be.

However, primary is very important too and you need to make sure it has the ethos you are happy with and the nurturing that will serve the child well - you can only establish that by looking around, look at Ofsted, league tables, talk to local parents, look at the children and what they are like etc...lots and lots of things to consider and even then I don't think you'll know 100% until you child goes through it! x

Put his name down for the prep and then leave it, as others have said. In three years time you will be better able to judge what he needs.

By then either of the schools could have improved or deteriorated beyond recognition.

Put his name down and wait and see. The type of school my DD needed at 5 was in reality very different to the type I thought she would need as a baby. Also as said before schools can change. Very often a change of head can have a big effect and not for the better .

One more thing to take into account is what you would do if another child enters the equation at any point.

@ quattro's DD feeling deprived for lack of iPad. Get yerself out and buy her one woman - she's suffering.

To the OP - I would agree with looking at what the private school will give that he might not get at state school. You are fortunate to have a good school nearby - I used to live in a small village with a village state school which had mixed age classes (very small) but tbh it failed my friend's DD who had complex learning needs which were not picked up (except by my DF). They have ended up having to move her to a bigger (private) school later on. The village school also come out as "very good" in the Ofsted reports so they are not always an indicator.

Ds is now 14 and has been singing in several countries as well as up and down this country as part of a chapel choir. He sings everymorning before school and 3 days after.
Oh and it's a state school.

The good thing about private education is ghat you can mess about, get no qualifications and still end up with a 'fab' job.

TJP - the thing with OFSTED reports is that you have to read between the line s to get an idea of what the school is REALLY like as they very rarely say that a school is not "good" unless it actiually has gang shhotouts in the playground.

From my experience of comparing OFSTED ratings against what I know about the local schools anything less than an "outstanding" rating can mean that the school is pretty poor. A "very good" is actually a fairly poor rating.

From my admittedly anecdotal knowledge, it seems OFSTED is VERY reluctant to actually say anything bad about a poor school. I can see where they are coming from, a "poor" rating would cause a mass exodus from a school and make it very difficult for them to actually improve. But that is not much help to a parent trying to choose a school which will give their DC a good education.

As you can see, my school was rated as "very good", especially in spelling!

My advice, based on two children who've gone through state primary and then on to private, is not to bother with private schools for key stage one at least.

The literacy and numeracy in good state primaries is very good and i sometimes think the teachers are privy to the latest teaching and somewhat more creative than they are in pre-preps.

Once you get to eight plus and you want a broader curriculum, you can review.

I kept mine in state primaries until they were starting year six. Both have got into selective independents.

I would agree with abr1de, and a lot of parents round here send their DCs to the really outstanding local state schools up to age 7. (and OFSTED rates then as such! )At this young age there is NO NEED for extensive playing fields or a purpose built theatre.

Age 7 is the big transition point where a lot of the local provate schools have their main intake and the state schools have the change from infant to junior schools. There is a lot of movement to private at this stage as the junior schools do find it difficult to compete with the better facilities and broader curriculum of the private schools. And my DCs HAVE seen real benefits from these facilities, they are at an age to get a lot from them.

That said, the junior schools and several of the local secondaries are still excellent but they are still not able to offer all the real benefits that their private equivalents can.

If you are not committed to the state education system then have the decency not to take up places at what you regard as 'good' schools in early years. State schools are not a savings scheme for those who prefer private education. By the way, it is a vast generalisation to say that talents such as choral singing are not recognised, developed and enhanced in state schools.

Ladyinmauve sorry but that's nonsense about Ofsted reports and rather dangerous nonsense too.

I agree they should be read carefully and seen in context of visits to school etc, but it is certainly not the case that "very good" (not that there is such a rating) is actually a poor rating.

It is much harder than it used to be to achieve good or outstanding. So a recent "good" inspection will certainly mean something.

And Ofsted round here is most deffo not afraid to say if there are problems. A school in a middle-class area where the children achieve well was recently put in special measures because it wasn't challenging the most able children. Not because there were gang shootouts in the playground.

Quattro, have no argument with where you choose to school yr children, but I agree with other posters that it is simply not the case that talents are not nurtured in state schools. There was a cathedral chorister in the year above DS1 at his state junior school.

Going on my experience of local schools, Clary, I disagree.

Some schools which have had "very good" ratings here in recent inspections are well known to be appalling.

Perhaps it is a local blip, but it is enough to make me take these reports with a large pinch of salt.

Gillg57 - I will send my DCs to whichever school I regard to be best for them at each stage of their education. I pay tax the same as most people and I have as much right as you to use the state education which I have paid for. The last time I looked most schools do not include a parental idealogy check in their entrance requirements.

The ofsted rating system changed quite a bit last September. I would be very surprised if any school that was "appalling" got a good or outstanding under the new regime. In fact lots of schools slipped in their ratings because the give great added value with dificlt kids but just don't get the raw results.

I also wouldn't put much value on what everyone knows, personal experience is much better. Near me eeryone knows a certain secondary is going to be closed and sold for housing. This is nonsense as all the secondary schools are over subscribed, and bursting at the seems (it also got good under the new Ofsted regime).