Headteachers have voted to boycott SATS....

[deaddei]

but in RL what will that mean?
Will some schools not do them?

By BeenBeta Mon 19-Apr-10 18:51:43
By the way I do read TES Forums - but all your secrets are safe. wink grin

Surely anyone who posts on an open forum isn't trying to keep secrets

I think all the other teachers on this thread have said everything that needs to be said regarding the issues of teacher assessment and SATs but I wasn't sure if anyone had explicitly answered the OP since it got quite argumentative quite quickly.

The responsibility for administering the tests lies with the headteacher, if the head is boycotting they refuse to open the tests and refuse to delegate the administration to other staff. Schools will then submit teacher assessments in place of the SATs level. I teach in a middle school and we're still planning to test using old papers but this will vary from school to school.

As yet, it's unclear as to how many schools will be affected. NAHT heads will boycott, but the NUT position is a bit blurred at the moment since so few returned the ballot papers that, according to my head, there are some questions as to the legality of the action (so much for the might of the teaching unions BeenBeta, sadly rather apathetic members it seems)

Sorry if somebody else has already said this and I've missed it.

The leadership of both unions meet this week (think it's Wednesday) to decide how to act following the yes vote.

Mick Brookes, General Secretary of the NAHT, said:

?This is a significant result for the NAHT, we have not conducted a national ballot in a quarter of a century. This ballot and the impending action was entirely avoidable. Both the NAHT and NUT put forward a viable alternative for 2010 that would have produced a more accurate summary of a child?s learning journey, would have reduced bureaucracy and would have saved the £23million spent on this year?s administrative arrangements. This system is a profligate waste of taxpayers? money.?

"Both the NAHT and NUT put forward a viable alternative for 2010 that would have produced a more accurate summary of a child?s learning journey..."

Have you got a link to that alternative or know where I can find it?

In about 100 different posts on this very thread, Beenbeta.

NAHT Presents Charter for Assessment and Accountability
Assessment-Campaign-logo
The NAHT has published Active Trust and Supportive Responsibility ? A Charter for Assessment and Accountability in England (see attached documents). This sets out detailed proposals for the future of testing and accountability in English primary schools.

The carefully researched document calls for:

• Moderated teacher assessment to replace external testing for 11 year olds.
• Schools to work with the Chartered Institute of Assessors to develop Chartered Assessors in families of schools to moderate teachers? assessment.
• Rotational sampling of standards in English, Mathematics and Science to be used to evaluate how well English schools are doing on a year by year basis.
• A new role for Ofsted in assessing the work of schools working in partnership across localities and in securing consistent assessment practices in schools.
• A more supportive role for School Improvement Partners in bringing practice in all schools up to the standards of the most successful.
• Further development of the Government?s proposed School Report Card (SRC) so that Teacher Assessment is used within the SRC and that a wider set of measures is developed to assess school progress and report to parents.

Mick Brookes, General Secretary NAHT comments as follows:

'This detailed document has been produced as a direct response to the challenge of replacing SATs with an assessment and accountability model for the 21st century that meets the needs of all stakeholders. It would have been very easy to stand on a platform demanding the removal of a system which is no longer fit for purpose without offering an alternative way forward. We believe these proposals show a better path for progress whilst still allowing parents to have excellent information about the performance of schools.

The Prime Minister says that he wants to see the teaching profession driving improvements and teachers learning from each other. The time is right for the profession to engage with all partners in the development of a revised but still rigorous model of educational accountability for the nation?s schools. A timely lead from the government will inspire the active partnership of all stakeholders.'

www.naht.org.uk/EasySiteWeb/getresource.axd?AssetID=17536&type=full&servicetype=Attachment

www.naht.org.uk/EasySiteWeb/getresource.axd?AssetID=17538&type=full&servicetype=Attachment

A recent report from the House of Commons? Children, Schools and Families Select
Committee on school accountability, which drew on overwhelming evidence from
schools and research bodies, was extremely critical of the SATs regime. It concluded that,
?Schools feel so constrained by the fear of failure according to the narrow criteria of the
performance tables that they resort to measures such as teaching to the test, narrowing
the curriculum and an inappropriate focusing of resources on borderline candidates ??

I have read the links. It is worse than I feared and that is being kind.

"Overall judgements should be derived from judgements weighted to favour wellbeing
and contextually-validated attainment data;

Wider qualitative indicators of wellbeing should be used, such as those developed by
the OECD or the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child;"

What on earth does THAT mean? If I want to know about DSs wellbeing at school I ask them if they are happy. Nothing in that document will tell me if DS1 is capable of doing algebra or use punctuation though.

How can the complex flow chart in the second document be easier to adminster and cheaper than current SATs?

I am aghast that is what the NUT/NAHT really thinks is better than SATs. I am an intelligent well informed and engaged parent but what is in those docments is utterly meaningless and useless to me.

Lets just develop a website with a log in screen, password and a bank of randomised 7+/11+/13+ style questions that can mark and instantly feed the marks back to teachers and parents and stop messing about shall we.

Beenbeta, the quote refers to so-called school report cards, a proposal which talks about judgements of schools, not individual children.

for you

Teacher assessments would use exactly the same criteria and levels as SATs - better, in fact, since it is only statutory for a broad level 3, 4 or 5 to be reported from the KS2 tests. Teacher assessments are broken down into more detailed sublevels, such 4c for a lower level 4, then 4b and 4a for a higher level 4, etc

AND, FOR THE THIRD TIME, HOW CAN ANYONE ASSESS WRITING WITH RANDOMISED QUESTIONS?

FGS! I am not interested in a school report card or wellbeing assessments. I can read the school Ofsted report (unless NUT want to get rid of those as well), walk round and look at the facilities, ask other parents, look at published average scores for 11+ results.

I just want to know if my kids have learned anything at school this year by looking a simple, objective, independent, nationally comparable test score in each core subject area that is cheap and simple to administer!

How hard can that be? Why can some teachers on this thread not understand that?

I'm struggling to understand why a good SATs result, or even worse a good result from a multiple choice test, would reassure you that they'd learned anything at all!

Oh, and thanks everyone who responded to my question the other day about whether, in England, I could legally withdraw my child from SATs. The answers suggest I should be very glad we moved to Scotland, otherwise I think I've been home educating (until that gets completely outlawed as well).

I'd have been home educating, I meant.

Well, for example, if a child like DS1 got 85% on his maths multi-choice test but got nearly all the algebra questions wrong that would tell me a lot. I hope it would also tell his teacher a lot.

Sorry for being simplistic but my basic conclusion would be that he has a good grasp of mathematical concepts appropriate to his age except for algebra where he needs remedial work.

Now do you see why it would be so useful to me?

I am only interested in the learning outcome (i.e does DS1 know how to do algebra). I am not in the least bit interested how the teacher gets DS1 there as long as he is happy and engaged.

I have had the teaching experience BB seems to think important in more than one 'institution' (some of which were quite exalted) I haven't seen any semblance of 'brutality' amongst the well mannered and (usually)educated parents with whom I have worked. I have seen a lot of 'anxiety' which I can well understand. This is just my experience of course but I do not think this is unusual.

BUT SATs just don't help you to identify the needs of your children unless you go into a fairly complex question by question analysis! This is honestly the case. Ask your children's teacher - they will certainly be able to unpick your child's performance and tell you what your child needs to revisit. They can probably suggest teaching and revision techniques which are ways you can help and more importantly your child can help him/herself. In the end your child needs to learn and this is not entirely synonymous with being taught.

SATs do not tell you how well your child is performing because performance is just too complex. All the strands don't come together until the child is older - you can test them then.

Sorry that sounds so opinionated doesn't it?

I wish there was a simple way - it would make my life so much easier.

I think I must be dreadfully out of touch here, but I thought that was what homework was for BeenBeta. If you/the teacher only discover that your son can't do algebra following the results of a national test, then something's a little wrong wouldn't you say?

Sorry about all the poor punctuation and verb (dis)agreement in the last post. I was typing it just too fast - part of my performance which I need to address.

The links mrz provided for you explained how teacher assessment USING THE SAME LEVELLING SYSTEM AS SATS BUT IN LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS MORE DETAIL is the way forward. There were other proposals regarding whole school information in there that you may ignore if you wish.

BeenBeta - I understand you want to know how well your children are doing - however I cannot understand why you think that multiple choice questions are the best option. Firstly as you mentioned

BeenBeta "Well, for example, if a child like DS1 got 85% on his maths multi-choice test but got nearly all the algebra questions wrong that would tell me a lot. I hope it would also tell his teacher a lot"

A teacher would know this already - they would not need a multiple choice paper to tell them this. Also as mentioned by a numer of people (not all teachers) there are a number of areas that a multiple choice test cannot assess. It is also unlikely that exam boards would release which questions students got right or wrong without schools having to pay for it.

Could you explain to me more clearly why you think teacher assessment that was then externally moderated would not be acceptable (apart from the cost). This could also include multiple choice questions.

As a parent I would be very wary if the only assessment that was used was multiple choice questions and this was solely used to inform progress and set targets.

The multichoice scheme I proposed would be a national one and part of it would be a detailed analysis of the areas of the curriculum a child was weak on. There would be no point in a system that didnt give that detailed info - you and I obviously know that.

There are CD ROM or web based exam practice products that already do this type of analysis - it really is not rocket science.

A good teacher would know already, but what if the teacher does not know? Not all teachers are good. Some minority are bad or do not care and many more are simply overburdened. This would make life a lot easier for teachers.

An independent national multi-choice exam lasting say 45 minutes for each core subject and done once a term over say the last 4 years of a childs Primary education would surely give teachers (at both Primary and Secondary level) and parents a really good basis for a discussion about the future educational needs of the child, where they should be setted or streamed and what extra help they might need.

I dont want external moderation, it is far too imprecise and costly. I want one exam per term that cannot be manipulated, completley consistent and is taken completely outside the teachers hands. The teachers skill and time should be spent in designing a teaching programe in response to the data fed back for each child which should then be shared with the parent and child.

Taking the exam every term would also allow a teacher to spot if the performance of a child had suddenly dipped/risen compared to the last exam they took. This would also get round the problem of teachers feeling they were being unfairly judged when they have a weaker set of children. The progress comparison for each child would only be against the last test the child took. Not against the class, school or national average.

All of this exam process could be automated, with no marking or results reporting/analysis required of the teacher.

BUT HOW WOULD YOU MARK WRITING?

The school I last taught at does SATs at Y3, 4 and 5 as well. These are marked very carefully and analysed on a question by question basis, showing if there are overall trends amongst the year group and therefore anything the next teacher needs to especially focus on. The numbers are crunched, the graphs are made and the analysis is made. When I taught at this school (only a couple of years ago) we had offered parents one meeting per term, after school hours and parents were welcome to make an appointment to come in at any time to discuss their child's progress and examine their books. There were invitational morning meetings for every year group for the teachers to meet the parents and tell them what the work for the forthcoming term would focus on. At the end of the summer term I would write a four page report for each child, which focussed on each key skill in every subject as well as a detailed section about their attitude and wellbeing at the end.

I really can't see how a multiple choice questionnaire can inform any parent any more than that. I was a bloody good teacher and the reason I moved on from the profession was partly because of the test driven culture and the pressure it put on children and their teachers. It takes much of the fun out of learning and many children are more anxious and poorly engaged because of it.

Feenie - I assume a teacher will be teaching children to physically write but in future that will be a less important skill as computers and hand held devices take over.

Current 11+ tests require a child to understand a quite sophisticated piece of text. The test then covers punctuation, comprehension and spelling. Whether a child can wrIte creatively or not is not something I want testing. It is an innate skill like being able to draw - pretty much untestable, qualitative and very much in the eye of the individal reader.

Given the current 'disgraceful' state of some parts of the state education system in the UK I think we should be worrying more that children can read, comprehend, spell and punctuate a sentence.

Testing deeper skills like creativity should come later. Sorry, I take a utilitarian view but so do employers and if a child enters secondary school unable to read, spell or punctuate then a child can forget creative writing or getting a decent job or into university. The tests I am talking about would be testing knowledge, logic and problem solving skills - not higher skills like creatvity.

LETS GET THE BASIC RIGHT!

Then I'm afraid your whole argument is flawed because if you cannot see that being able to write purposefully and creatively is not an innate part of literacy, then you'll not understand why teachers are enquiring of you how they ought to test it. You don't value in the ability to create complex sentence structures and write persuasively and imaginatively using appropriate vocabulary? You don't see how that is of value in the workplace?

That is what teachers are asking you when they ask how you propose to assess the ability to write. Teaching writing in school is not just handwriting and writing stories as you seem to believe. It is, though to some degree subjective, eminently testable. If their entire education up to the age of eleven has focussed merely on getting the basics right, do you honestly believe that children can suddenly be "taught" creativity. Thank God you are not an education adviser. I find your arguments deeply depressing.