Is it just me that feels this way?

[Melaniefhappy]

Hi Everyone,

Am I the only one to feel utterly disappointed, if not despairing, about the standard of education at my state primary school (in Hampshire)?

We recently changed schools (moved home) and whilst I totally accept that all schools are different, this new one offers little to inspire the children to do well; for example ..they do no spelling tests, do not ever correct spellings on written work, send home work that is appalling to be 'celebrated' by parents. Dare I go on as I don't wish to bore you ..however... they only read once a week with the children at any age (our old school read everyday - I know, as I went in twice a week with another army of mums to help this happen). Our new school refuses to consider this option despite friendly discussions with the teacher, offers of help, letters and meetings with the head.

Hence I feel I am home schooling first and foremost (in a fun way at home) with school doing the rest- harsh but true. In fact, if my children suceed in their primary education it will be despite the school's involvement, not as a result of it. They are very ready to book fun things - school trips, teachers dressing up for fun reward days, in classroom picnics, and lots of watching videos..but the academics seem to be second place at all times unless you are in the gifted and talented group - you lucky people you!!!

Just before you ask ...other parents in our class range from not really bothered about their children's reading and spelling standards through to worried but have been (like me) totally ground down by the 'no no no' attitude of the school. Despite gentle friendly approaches of concern, nothing happens- and I am the class rep!!! Trouble is, I do not wish to have to quite literally argue/fight with the school and force the issues through Governor levels and on to the Department of Education (or whatever it is called now). Am I a coward?

Yes I am on the PTA, and yes I go in to read, and help as much as I can in the school, and funnily enough there was lots of competition to be a Governor so I didn't take this route - rather wish I had now- might have had a real voice!!!.

Hence I am currently playing the lottery to afford to send my two children to private school - both my husband and I went, and without this, neither one of us would have done so well. Not well enough however to afford the fees today!

Sorry ...rant over!!! I just wondered if I was alone in this or if I am mad, unreasonable and expecting too much.
All the best, really sorry again to moan- it is either this or cry!
Melanie
x

I cant help feeling that the real issue is that you want to send them to private school but cant afford it so you feel you are settling for second best. State schools are just as good as private, I went to one and did very well and got a good degree. so did millions of others.

Individual reading doesnt go on so much in schools these days, its seen as poor use of time so children are taught phonics, and read in groups, have the school explained this to you ?

How old are your children ? Our school does not do spelling until year three and reading is mostly done one to one at home. Only in groups of five in school and rarely. However, they learn how to read on the carpet. Sometimes it can seem that schools are chaotic and very little is going on but it is not as bad as it seems

I have three in state schools and they are all doing well.

Sorry "on the carpet" sounds weird I meant during literacy hour sitting all together learning phonics like mumto2 said.

Perhaps the teachers have read the research showing that spelling tests have little or no benefit for children's learning. Perhaps they know that there is a large body of evidence demonstrating that encouraging children to write in ambitious, creative ways is more important than correcting spelling mistakes. It's a shame they don't want parent helpers to hear the children read, I agree, but beyond that I think the problem here is that you have a particular idea of what your children should be learning that is certainly catered to by a lot of private schools, but isn't necessarily such a great thing.

I agree with Zoya about spelling tests, they don't seem to work at all. The phonics lessons do.

Melanie, how old is your child ?

Are you really doing the lottery in an attempt to pay school fees ?

"...without this, neither one of us would have done so well." Unless your underachieving clone attended a state school, it is really not possible to make that assertion, unless, of course, you were only given your current jobs because of the school you went to.

You sound like a caring and involved parent. Your children will do fine at their school.

mable you win my vote for quote of the day.

" Unless your underachieving clone attended state school"

take a bow mable

How old are your children?

I fully understand OPs concerns. Our local Outstanding Primary (that is supposed to be one of the best in SE) 'produces' pupils with most appalling grammar. What is wrong with correcting the mistakes children make, they are in school to learn, no???

Absolutely but they usually start to correct them more in KS2

Change primary schools and find one that suits you (if able to travel).State schools differ a lot.

Hi all

Thanks for your replies.

Mumto2andnomore- thanks for your comments but I am very happy to go state! The previous state school was great, but is now too far away for us -I even considered doing the run, but don't wish to move them again.

I do appreciate they read in groups, but what good is this, if you can see it is not working! The result at the moment (and for the last year) has been a massively different level of reading ability between our last school and this one. If the heads compared their respective YR2 reading abilities they would be shocked at the difference. One reads daily the other doesn't. Surely this moots the idea that individual reading is a poor use of time..

Zoya - you are right, I guess I have a particular idea of what they should be learning- the three R's ....as well as creativity and content- it is all about balance, surely? I'm in recruitment and you would be surprised at the application forms -riddled with spelling mistakes and grammatical errors- I'm not saying there's a link but it does make you think about the lack of focus on spelling these days.

Of course I am joking about the Lottery- but having said that, if I won, this is what I would spend it on for sure!

Mablemurple- great quote, but I know I would not have achieved as much as I was not naturally academically gifted- the fact that the school had fewer kids in the class meant more attention and hence I progressed to full potential for me. I also was a bit of a wild child and the increased discipline made me sit up and take notice. Neither of course are unique to private schools - any school can enable kids to reach their full potential and yes, many, many of them do. However this is not happening at the school we are in now. I wish it was.

I honestly doubt my first employer even knew where my school was located in the UK let alone whether it was state/private. Hopefully all they were interested in was role related results and ability..and good spelling!!!!

MintyCan- she is YR 2 and I know that standards are not good, as my kid has always been average in her class, whereas looking at the standards of her peers in the previous school - they have far overtaken her in all disciplines. She would now be the least able in the class - this wouldn't worry me if this was her full potential - I'm not a pushy mum honest - but knowing other schools have different standards is of concern.

Sorry if this has upset some of you along the private school/state school lines - reading into some responses this appears to be the case. It does not change the fact that I think standards are poor at our school and we should encourage kids (gently) to be the best they can - not just cross fingers and hope it all sorts itself out in the end. Not all state schools are wonderful so if yours is I'm very happy for you!

Thanks for taking the time to reply even if I'm left feeling worse!
Best, Melanie

Melanie seems to me that some are trying to say that maybe it's simply that methods have change. So when you see your child not having bad spelling corrected it's a deliberate policy in KS1, rather than a neglectful one. And where you see it as bad that they don't do one-to-one reading, the school are more than likely following a recognised programme that shows group reading and learning in other ways can be more effective long term. fwiw, I'd say if your daughter's happy, enjoying school and genuinely thriving then the school's doing quite a lot right. Why don't you as class rep ask for a meeting for you and the other parents and ask for the school to explain how things have changed in terms of teaching. You don't have to do this in a threatening complaining way, just in a 'help us to understand' way. I think worries such as these are really common and schools often do themselves few favours by not bothering to explain.

Hi Melanie

It seems the school your children are at just doesnt fit with your beliefs. All state schools are different, even though they all teach the national curriculum. Investigate whether KS2 uses the same approach if not you could look for another school which better fits . Or you could acknowledge you are going to have to have alot of input at home and that school is for gaining social skills.
How does the school do in its KS2 sats. If it does well maybe their approach with a slow confidence boosting start works really well. If they are awful maybe it doesnt.
I dont think you are going to change the school. You will either need to change schools or if the school has great KS2 Sats look at the school in a different way

Could you maybe find an alternative state school that fits in with what you think schools should offer, rather than hoping for a lottery win? is there another school within a reasonable distance that might be better?

Hi all

Thanks for your replies.

Mumto2andnomore- thanks for your comments but I am very happy to go state! The previous state school was great, but is now too far away for us -I even considered doing the run, but don't wish to move them again.

I do appreciate they read in groups, but what good is this, if you can see it is not working! The result at the moment (and for the last year) has been a massively different level of reading ability between our last school and this one. If the heads compared their respective YR2 reading abilities they would be shocked at the difference. One reads daily the other doesn't. Surely this moots the idea that individual reading is a poor use of time..

Zoya - you are right, I guess I have a particular idea of what they should be learning- the three R's ....as well as creativity and content- it is all about balance, surely? I'm in recruitment and you would be surprised at the application forms -riddled with spelling mistakes and grammatical errors- I'm not saying there's a link but it does make you think about the lack of focus on spelling these days.

Of course I am joking about the Lottery- but having said that, if I won, this is what I would spend it on for sure!

Mablemurple- great quote, but I know I would not have achieved as much as I was not naturally academically gifted- the fact that the school had fewer kids in the class meant more attention and hence I progressed to full potential for me. I also was a bit of a wild child and the increased discipline made me sit up and take notice. Neither of course are unique to private schools - any school can enable kids to reach their full potential and yes, many, many of them do. However this is not happening at the school we are in now. I wish it was.

I honestly doubt my first employer even knew where my school was located in the UK let alone whether it was state/private. Hopefully all they were interested in was role related results and ability..and good spelling!!!!

MintyCan- she is YR 2 and I know that standards are not good, as my kid has always been average in her class, whereas looking at the standards of her peers in the previous school - they have far overtaken her in all disciplines. She would now be the least able in the class - this wouldn't worry me if this was her full potential - I'm not a pushy mum honest - but knowing other schools have different standards is of concern.

Sorry if this has upset some of you along the private school/state school lines - reading into some responses this appears to be the case. It does not change the fact that I think standards are poor at our school and we should encourage kids (gently) to be the best they can - not just cross fingers and hope it all sorts itself out in the end. Not all state schools are wonderful so if yours is I'm very happy for you!

Thanks for taking the time to reply even if I'm left feeling worse!
Best, Melanie

mumto2andnomore - what an outrageous statement. Why should children who go to state schools have to put up with poor standards of marking - most state schools do this of course, though this particular school sounds like it is complacent

OP - what you should do is check if there are a written policy on marking and if so make a formal complaint to the GB that it is not been implemented

Spelling is dealt with in phonics lessons, and the teacher will be keeping tabs on the children's work to check that phonics learning is being transferred to written work. Spelling tests have little effect on the children's day-to-day spelling - they get 10/10 in the tests and then promptly forget them. Hence the daily phonics teaching.

Parents are expected to read with children 4-5 times a week. Guided reading sessions (ability grouped) occur once a week. This is NOT just 'reading'. There is discussion about the book / definition of words - all against an objective for the specific reading level.

As regards marking.... it is meaningless and demoralising to present a marked piece of work littered with spelling corrections. How does that correct or teach spelling?

In our school (and, I have a feeling, in your dd's school) we mark against a lesson objective AND an individual target. Success against the lesson objective is marked with a yellow highlighter, with an arrow pointing out something they should improve. The improvement is then made to 'close the gap' (i.e. get nearer to the next level). If child meets his/her target in a piece of writing they get a tick on a target chart. 3 target ticks means they get their name on the wall and a prize.

You seem to have taken a stance of looking at everything negatively. I think it would be useful to talk to the teachers about their methods - particularly their assessment methods. You might be pleasantly surprised.

They sound as if they do really fun activities to grab the children's interest.

You seem v.sure that the children in her old school are way ahead of her now and that would worry me too if it were my child. But maybe just maybe the children there are learning other things/ have different priorities? I really do think you should ask the school for a meeting to explain their take on how they teach though - what harm can it do?

Good grief, demoralising to correct spelling? If one makes a mistake, how on Earth would one know unless told so??? This utter huggy-fluffiness is the leading cause of pathetic level of basic literacy in this country.
Of course, it's safe to assume that competition must be seen as über-evil as 'all children are equally good' and participation counts more that winning.
Individual target? Who determines the 'individual target'? How is it determined? Yellow highlighters.....
What's wrong with red?
[goes off muttering that something is rotten in the state of Denmark ....]

Yes, demoralising, and totally unnecessary. What good does it do? If a piece of work has an objective about, say, spelling 'ie' sound words, then I would correct the 'ie' spellings. If you correct grammar, spelling, handwriting.... on infant children's work it means NOTHING to them. It is overkill. Marking against an objective makes total sense because the child knows what s/he is aiming for. I find your comment misguided, uninformed and certainly like many on the Daily Mail web-site.

The teacher determines the individual target as s/he knows what the child needs to do - it is part of personalised learning. We DO know the children!!!

Melanie,

It looks as if you have thought in great detail about exactly what your concerns are. I would be concerned too. How about putting your Dcs' names down for a school you are happy with and hoping a place comes up? Once one is in, the other will be at the top of the list because of the 'sibling rule'. I appreciate what you say about not wanting your DCs to have to settle in a new school again but they are young and it may be worth the short term pain for an education you are confident in.

Melanie - I've been where you are. We moved and I felt that the new school was really not the standard of the one they had left. And I say "felt" because I couldn't, actually, quite believe it.
To be honest, I really didn't quite believe it for ages. I went through all the "different approaches", "learning different things", "different priorities" stuff.
I then did all the trying to fill in the gaps at home thing, when I realised that my suspicions were absolutely correct.
I still can't believe it - 2 state schools, in comparable areas of London. The difference between them is a chasm. I feel very, very let down. And very naive.
I can say that, deep down, I also used to believe the line that committed parents can work with the school, any school, and work with their kids at home to make up for any shortfalls. It's not true. Or at least, not with every school.
So take smokeandmirrors advice and start looking around.