Is it just me that feels this way?

[Melaniefhappy]

Hi Everyone,

Am I the only one to feel utterly disappointed, if not despairing, about the standard of education at my state primary school (in Hampshire)?

We recently changed schools (moved home) and whilst I totally accept that all schools are different, this new one offers little to inspire the children to do well; for example ..they do no spelling tests, do not ever correct spellings on written work, send home work that is appalling to be 'celebrated' by parents. Dare I go on as I don't wish to bore you ..however... they only read once a week with the children at any age (our old school read everyday - I know, as I went in twice a week with another army of mums to help this happen). Our new school refuses to consider this option despite friendly discussions with the teacher, offers of help, letters and meetings with the head.

Hence I feel I am home schooling first and foremost (in a fun way at home) with school doing the rest- harsh but true. In fact, if my children suceed in their primary education it will be despite the school's involvement, not as a result of it. They are very ready to book fun things - school trips, teachers dressing up for fun reward days, in classroom picnics, and lots of watching videos..but the academics seem to be second place at all times unless you are in the gifted and talented group - you lucky people you!!!

Just before you ask ...other parents in our class range from not really bothered about their children's reading and spelling standards through to worried but have been (like me) totally ground down by the 'no no no' attitude of the school. Despite gentle friendly approaches of concern, nothing happens- and I am the class rep!!! Trouble is, I do not wish to have to quite literally argue/fight with the school and force the issues through Governor levels and on to the Department of Education (or whatever it is called now). Am I a coward?

Yes I am on the PTA, and yes I go in to read, and help as much as I can in the school, and funnily enough there was lots of competition to be a Governor so I didn't take this route - rather wish I had now- might have had a real voice!!!.

Hence I am currently playing the lottery to afford to send my two children to private school - both my husband and I went, and without this, neither one of us would have done so well. Not well enough however to afford the fees today!

Sorry ...rant over!!! I just wondered if I was alone in this or if I am mad, unreasonable and expecting too much.
All the best, really sorry again to moan- it is either this or cry!
Melanie
x

I disagree that spelling tests don't work. My father used to give my sister and I huge lists of spellings to learn when we were children and I have to say that I have never been unable to spell anything.

OP - you have my every sympathy. It doesn't sound like a great school. Can you change?

Another one that believes in spelling tests especially if you are taught little gimmicks etc to help you remember:

Separate. (Remember separate has a similar meaning to apart so is 'sepARate'). I never wrote seperate again.

Cortina, thanks for that very useful piece of info, I've never come across that

The sad fact is that education provision in the uk is patchy. Some schools are simply not good enough and the education they provide is not fit for purpose.

I volunteer in a school that I think fails its pupils terribly. As do a lot of the parents, but that's another thread.

If your school is one of these, then you need to leave it.
Literacy is one of the most important life-skills to master. It will allow you to process the world around you, access the wider world. And of course it is the source of endless interest and pleasure.

I would say that if a child is not being taught that skill adequately he/she is being let down.
I would go further and say that a child who is being taught that skill but is surrounded by children who are not will also have an impoverished education.

"I would go further and say that a child who is being taught that skill but is surrounded by children who are not will also have an impoverished education."

I agree very much with this. I would go even further, and say that a child in that position is at risk of isolation and depression.

Dear Easterbunny, could you possibly be so kind and tell me when is the matter of spelling tackled in the primary school?
The eleven year old children in our local Outstanding primary simply can't spell, they constantly make very basic grammatical errors, it's painful to see.
I don't care how 'cool' the school is and how much 'fun' the teachers are, if by age eleven children have no idea about basic rules of grammar then the system is not working.
After all, isn't the school meant to be the place where the children learn?

"As regards marking.... it is meaningless and demoralising to present a marked piece of work littered with spelling corrections."

How demoralising to find out that you have been doing something wrong for years and no-one corrected you. How demoralising to have to unlearn bad habits.
Why not just do it right in the first place? Or, if the kids are not capable, why are you setting written work when they are clearly not ready yet? Very muddled thinking going on here methinks.

You may quote a million and one trendy studies to back up your way of teaching but in the real world many employers are complaining that schools produce cocky know-it-alls who, actually, know stuff-all and are not employment material.

I only realised that a lot was two words when I was corrected by my history teacher aged 14.

I'd been writing 'alot' in my school work since I was very young and not once was it ever corrected so I had no idea. I should have realised through my reading etc but for whatever reason I didn't twig.

In one my my children's schools I saw their teacher made this mistake themselves. 'Could write alot more' was written on my daughter's work the other week.

My grammar also leaves much to be desired but I hope to work through some grammar books this year to plug the gaps .

Rollmops - FYI the 'question' of phonics is tackled every single day in KS1 and YR throughout the country in 20-30 minute phonics lessons. This entails the teaching of spelling, not arbitary correction of spelling. There is a difference. Spellings are taught by rule and phonetic pattern using schemes - different schools use differnet schemes (e.g. Jolly Phonics, Letters adn Sounds, etc).

Grammar is different to spelling, and is taught within the literacy lessons. Each NC level has objectives that the children must meet before moving to the next level, in grammar, composition, handwriting and spelling. For instance, in Y2 we stick pretty much to expanding simple sentences using connectives, fullstops and capital letters (necessary to achieve L2), extending the brighter children to paragraphs, less common connectives and speech marks in order for them to achieve a L3.

I agree that some children aren't ready for written work, but we have to report writing assessments in Y2.

As regards employers - those in employment now are 15-20 years older than children being taught now. My son is just doing A levels and was in YR when the literacy strategy was introduced at his school. Therefore, a comment about current employees' spellings is irrelevant.
You seem to think that children learn from corrections in red ink. This is NOT the case. This is not TEACHING a child - it is merely pointing out mistakes. What good is that? A teacher will note any mistakes that are occurring frequently and use this information to inform his/her future teaching objectives. Just because there aren't hundreds of messy corrections over a piece of work, doesn't mean the teacher hasn't noticed them!

"As regards employers - those in employment now are 15-20 years older than children being taught now ... Therefore, a comment about current employees' spellings is irrelevant."

What is your logic here? We messed up the last generation but trust us because we are the professionals and we know what we are doing - we now have a different new and improved way of messing up their education.
I may have been talking about current young adults entering employment but OP has exactly the same concerns about current teaching.

"Just because there aren't hundreds of messy corrections over a piece of work, doesn't mean the teacher hasn't noticed them!"

How do we know that? Have you not read the many postings on here decrying the spelling mistakes of teachers (or, even worse, sending home spelling lists which contain errors ). How do we know if it is 'did not comment' or ' did not notice'?

Easterbunny - do you think the lit stategy has worked though?
Serious question not a dig.

It's just that in the school where I volunteer the the teacher uses all the current methods and literacy levels are appalling.
One of the main factors seems to be that those children who are not getting support at home and are not read to/with cannot make up in a class where there is no one to one. The phonics etc seems to just go over their heads iyswim.
And no love of literacy is being fostered either.

I compare that to my children's school where the teachers are not bound by any imposed strategy and seem instead to pick a mixture of the old and new (and are heard reading every single day, and have weekly spelling tests,) and the children have extraordinariy high literacy levels.

Then again I would bet the majority are being read with/to at home. So perhaps that's where the benefit comes. Or a mixture of the two.

I know nothing (disclaimer!), but I think what EasterBunny's trying to say is that they teach literacy (including spelling) in stages, so it's not that they don't teach it! I agree with her that to start off with it's not too helpful to keep on pointing out every mistake as they understandably make so many and need loads of praise to thrive. Having said that I am intrigued as to when it is helpful and most certainly want my child to be taught to spell. Am sure Mrz will be along shortly to tell us. Are you there mrz??

My argument is, that:
correcting spellings isn't 'teaching', giving spelling lists isn't 'teaching'.

All of the literacy basics are included in level objectives that children are required to meet (as I have already said).

You're assuming problems are going to occur 10 years along the line. Neither of us has any proof that that is going to happen. As teachers, we are trying to TEACH children literacy according to certain objectives. These are the same objectives that will have been around since schooling was made compulsory - capital letters, sentence construction, punctuation, etc, etc, etc.

I keep saying that we are teaching all these things, and still you keep saying that in 10 years it won't be good enough.... why not?

The fact that a teacher has noticed the mistake is no help to the child who made that mistake, unless it's corrected and pointed out to the said child.
All the 'objectives' in the world mean nothing if the child is unaware of the mistakes he or she is making.

I have very similar concerns about dd's school. In fact I have gone the governor route and practically got the head by the throat and told her that a fun and exciting curriculum is total arse if the children can't access it because they don't know how to read and write.

Dd is lucky (although she'd beg to differ!) in that I have high standards at home. Eg if anyone dares to utter "should of" in this house they are out in the snow. But what of the other children? When the teacher sends a note home saying "Can you learn to right these words?" and she is - shudder - the Head of Literacy - you know you in for some serious parental input.

Still wondering why are the majority of eleven year old pupils in an Outstanding small village school unable to spell and have nonexistent understanding of grammar?

"As teachers, we are trying to TEACH children literacy according to certain objectives. These are the same objectives that will have been around since schooling was made compulsory - capital letters, sentence construction, punctuation, etc, etc, etc."

Oh, right. So spelling hasn't been around since schooling was made compulsory?

And my issue with that, Grammercy ( and this isn't a crit - I would do exactly the same as you) is that those children who are not equally literate will, to some extent, dictate what goes on in class.

Of course, one can have differentiated work, but it is impossible for the teacher to proceed with something that requires the class to be literate if many are not at the required standard.The knock-on effect is a general worsening of standards.

My understanding is that literacy levels in this country are very low, with many children leaving school without sufficient skills.
We can't just rest on our laurels (sp?) and say everything's hunky dory. Many parents and teachers are expressing doubts.
I think it's only right and proper that we address them.

I am a bit worried about all this talk of 'objectives'. Teachers seem so tied up in the mechanics of how they are delivering that they are forgetting what they are not delivering. It seems like they can't see the wood for the trees.

Rollmops - Do I have to spell this out. The teacher DOES notice the mistake.
If several children have made the same mistake, the teacher uses that mistake as a lesson objective. She teaches against that lesson objective. She marks against that lesson objective. She assesses all the work to ensure the objective has been met. The child will complete an improvement point against that objective. If a child has not achieved said objective the teacher will use as a personal target, or, if necessary, as an objective in a future literacy sequence.

The children NEED to be taught to rectify their mistakes - learning doesn't happen by osmosis (i.e. children will not learn just because their mistakes been marked wrong with a red pen.)

Don't nitpick fembear - spelling was part of the etc, etc, etc.

Fembear:
A teacher teaches to an objective (i.e. 'To use good adjectives') That will dictate the learning target for the lesson - it says nothing about how it is being taught. I don't understand what you meant in your latest criticism.

Why not just correct the mistake when it's made?????????????????????? Why????