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Is it just me that feels this way?

235 replies

Melaniefhappy · 12/01/2010 11:49

Hi Everyone,

Am I the only one to feel utterly disappointed, if not despairing, about the standard of education at my state primary school (in Hampshire)?

We recently changed schools (moved home) and whilst I totally accept that all schools are different, this new one offers little to inspire the children to do well; for example ..they do no spelling tests, do not ever correct spellings on written work, send home work that is appalling to be 'celebrated' by parents. Dare I go on as I don't wish to bore you ..however... they only read once a week with the children at any age (our old school read everyday - I know, as I went in twice a week with another army of mums to help this happen). Our new school refuses to consider this option despite friendly discussions with the teacher, offers of help, letters and meetings with the head.

Hence I feel I am home schooling first and foremost (in a fun way at home) with school doing the rest- harsh but true. In fact, if my children suceed in their primary education it will be despite the school's involvement, not as a result of it. They are very ready to book fun things - school trips, teachers dressing up for fun reward days, in classroom picnics, and lots of watching videos..but the academics seem to be second place at all times unless you are in the gifted and talented group - you lucky people you!!!

Just before you ask ...other parents in our class range from not really bothered about their children's reading and spelling standards through to worried but have been (like me) totally ground down by the 'no no no' attitude of the school. Despite gentle friendly approaches of concern, nothing happens- and I am the class rep!!! Trouble is, I do not wish to have to quite literally argue/fight with the school and force the issues through Governor levels and on to the Department of Education (or whatever it is called now). Am I a coward?

Yes I am on the PTA, and yes I go in to read, and help as much as I can in the school, and funnily enough there was lots of competition to be a Governor so I didn't take this route - rather wish I had now- might have had a real voice!!!.

Hence I am currently playing the lottery to afford to send my two children to private school - both my husband and I went, and without this, neither one of us would have done so well. Not well enough however to afford the fees today!

Sorry ...rant over!!! I just wondered if I was alone in this or if I am mad, unreasonable and expecting too much.
All the best, really sorry again to moan- it is either this or cry!
Melanie
x

OP posts:
IAmTheEasterBunny · 18/01/2010 19:39

How are you defining 'fun'?

I know I learn better when the teaching is lively and you're fully involved as a learner. I also know that if I go on a course and someone drones on all day, I remember nothing.

pointysaysrelax · 18/01/2010 19:45

sorry bunny, I am being confusing. I skimmed the thread and saw a comment that we should make lerarning fun and now I can't find it so I am just muddying the waters.

I think a definition of fun is needed and I don't think the only options are that a lesson is fun or droning.

pointysaysrelax · 18/01/2010 19:49

People are very vague about what they want school to achieve. I think education top bods should be clarifying this.

It's all things like, schols should teach lots of things and equip my child for any sort of job. Well, what does that actually mean?

pointysaysrelax · 18/01/2010 19:51

oh, it was you, bunny, on Fri night -

PLEASE let us make learning fun!

cory · 18/01/2010 20:59

Speaking as somebody who has devoted the last 30 years to learning various languages and trawling through anciently smelly manuscripts and generally ...you know...learning- yes, I bloody well think learning should be fun!!! But I don't equate fun with easy and I hope my children won't either.

Most fun things - horse riding, sailing, dancing, makling beautiful music- are hard work and involve a certain amount of seemingly pointless slog. The same goes for PhDs in dead languages and great scientific breakthroughs. But the people who get through it and achieve something are the ones who never lose sight of the fact that it is actually meant to be fun.

All the outstanding academics I know look as if they are having fun. The gloomy ones tend to drop out early.

Of course I want my children to know that with anything worth while there will be times when you lose sight of the fun. But at the same time, I want them to have the basic feeling at the back of their minds that we are doing this because it is exciting to find things out: we're doing it for fun. If a teacher can convey that, then she is not a failure in my eyes.

pointysaysrelax · 18/01/2010 21:07

But a variety of opposing and confusing statements are in that post, cory.

Learning should be fun

Fun things involve hard work and an amount of seemingly pointless slog

People who get through it never lose sight of the fact it is meant to be fun

Outstanding academics look as if they are having fun

there will be times when you lose sight of the fun

when the sight of fun is lost, we should still know that we are doing something for fun.

I know, I know, I sound like your very annoying echo. I just don't think any of those statements clarify what schools should be teaching and how they should be teaching and why they should be using that method to teach.

Cortina · 19/01/2010 10:56

Some interesting reviews on All Must Have Prizes in case anyone is interested. Wastwinsetandpearls, others agree (see Marshall Lord's review below) that this isn't always the scenario in schools. The book was also written more than 10 years ago.

Teachers, I would be interested to know if this comment is correct: 'More recently you could not be graded a good teacher unless you make use of computer facilities and interactive whiteboards, even if their use is totally inappropriate for a particular lesson'. Thanks.:

This book details the decline of British education, and lies the blame on soft liberal attitudes, and the idea that children can derive more benefit by finding out for themselves. The book was written in 1996, and so details the decline in standards from the 1980s to this time. If Melanie Phillips were to bring out a new book, with an update of what has happended since 1996, her conclusions would be even more scary.

I have been a teacher since 1978, so I am aware of how what is currently taught fares with what I use to teach. My main subject is mathematics and this has seen a catastrophic decline in standards, and yet the current government will tell you that standards have improved and will back this up with the increased numbers of GCSE passes at good grades (A* - C). But if you look a little deeper into the content of GCE O'level, CSE and the current GCSE exams, you will see that there is no comparison. Today you need to achieve at least a grade A, to be of comparable ability of a bottom grade O'level pass in the 1980s. The current foundation level GCSE papers contain a lot of material that should have been mastered by age 9.

I find the book really interesting, mainly because I am familiar with many of the topics being discussed and many things that Melanie states and backs up with fact, ring true with my experience. It discusses the move away from traditional classroom teaching to a more child-centred approach. It talks about the lack of ability of University students, and the consequent need for academics to dumb down courses, precisely because the students could not cope otherwise. In fact this process continues, so that when it comes to recruiting University lecturers, it is difficult to find some one from this country who is suitably able to work at this level. I have seen all this. More recently you could not be graded a good teacher unless you make use of computer facilities and interactive whiteboards, even if their use is totally inappropriate for a particular lesson. This is precisely why standards, particularly in mathematics education are declining in this country, and that of countries such as China continue to produce better mathematicians, which on average are at least 3 years ahead.

This book is a real eye-opener, even though it is quite old now. What is said in this book still is relevant. The only thing is, the state of education is now far worse. This is an important book to read, for anyone interested in education. I am afraid that my review doesn't really do justice to this fine book. I can only emphasize that you should read it now.
A thought provoking analysis of some educational theory, 26 April 2009
By Mr. Jonathon M. Stenner (Halstead, Essex) - See all my reviews

This review is from: All Must Have Prizes (Paperback)

I have been a secondary school teacher for 20 years an I have seen the moral chaos at first hand in some schools, in others, key members of senior management have decided to stop the rot and been successful in doing so. In my classes, I have always adopted a didactic and disciplinarian approach - if you decide to follow this course than you have to kiss your career good bye; if you want to be senior management, then a PC approach is the key, with lots of child-centered BS in your CV to help your application along. Student voice is one example of the madness, where children interview prospective teachers, I refuse to allow this. Melanie Philips cleverly analyses the causes for the moral breakdown and gives some fairly heavyweight intellectual support for her opinions. At times she takes the words of extreme progressives too seriously - common sense prevails at the end of the day - it has to. I found this very stimulating and well worth a read.

History of how radical libertarians have destroyed our education system in pursuit of political goals, 10 Aug 2008

This review is from: All Must Have Prizes (Paperback)
I did not need to read this book to know that standards across the UK education system have slipped dramatically. What this book does to devastating effect is to explain how this state affairs has arisen and why. Most interestingly, the author apportions equal blame to Thatcher et al as to the libertarian left, which gives the lie to the slurs made against her of being a right-wing ideologue.

The text is well written and the arguments are consistent and logical. Where I disagree with Philips, is her assertion that children require to be taught Shakespeare and other 'cultured' literature. I was forced to endure this at high school and did not pick up a book for pleasure for a full ten years as a result.

In summary, if you want to know why our education system is in tatters then read this great book.
Help other customers find the most helpful reviews

Very one-sided but scores a lot of direct hits , 30 April 2007
By Marshall Lord (Whitehaven, UK) - See all my reviews

This review is from: All Must Have Prizes (Hardcover)
This trenchant 1996 polemic against the modern style of education is one of the most one-sided books I have ever read. But that does not mean it can be ignored.

Neither the school where I am about to conclude 20 years as a governor, nor the school which my own children currently attend, bear much resemblance to the picture painted in this book.

However, I did see hints of this picture in the school where I was previously a governor. More to the point, I have met far too many parents, teachers, and employers who do recognise the stories in this book as a description of what has been inflicted on their children, pupils, or new employees, to lightly dismiss them. The arguments presented by Melanie Phillips may not apply to every school, perhaps they don't even apply to the majority of schools, but they do seem to have some relevance as a description of what went wrong in the late 20th century in too many unsuccessful British schools.

From the newpaper articles by the author and her close intellectual ally, former head of the schools inspectorate Phillip Woodhead, I am sure she would argue that these problems have not been solved - and sadly she probably has a point.

The author would now be considered on matters of education to be a conservative (with a small c - this means someone of traditional views, who does not necessarily also support the Conservative party, with a large C.) A conservative is sometimes described as "A liberal who has been mugged by reality". Melanie Phillips started out as a "liberal" (e.g. left wing) Guardian journalist with all the fashionable progressive ideas associated with that position. On one or two issues she still is, witness the sideswipes at Mrs Thatcher which occasionally occur in the book.

However, Melanie Phillips changed her position on educational issues from arch-liberal to arch-conservative when she observed at first hand how liberal and progressive teaching methods were failing children. The book is full of examples.

I cannot accept that this book is a full and fair picture of every school in Britain at the time it was written or subsequently. It does not describe the schools I know best. But the book does score a very large number of direct hits on things which have gone wrong with some schools and makes very convincing arguments about how complete nonsense from some parts of the educational establishment have made matters worse.

Part of the reason the good schools of which I have personal experience have been successful and are not like the schools described in "All must have prizes" is that they have excellent heads who know when to ignore ridiculous advice from DFES (the Department for Education and Skills) or county hall.

If you want to have an understanding of the issues around education in Britain, you may or may not agree with this book but you ought to read it.

A "Must Read" book, 20 Jul 2006
By bucksman "always reading" (BUCKS, United Kingdom)

This review is from: All Must Have Prizes (Paperback)
After interviewing a collection of 16 year olds for an apprenticeship, I was struck by their general approach and chronic lack of basic scientific understanding. I sat there thinking, "did I have this approach at their age - was I this short of understanding ...etc."
I decided to investigate why this state of affairs has arisen; I was pointed in the direction of this book.
What I found worrying is the extreme ridiculing of those that stand up against this rise of political correctness, and ideology. The fact that my taxes are paying for this is even worse.
One can only sympathise with the children who have been so sorely let down by today's education system, they are in for such a shock when they start working.

smee · 19/01/2010 14:11

Can't stand Melanie Phillips myself but her first few sentences I'd applaud because YEAY THAT'S WHAT EDUCATION SHOULD DO. She's critical of it, I'm saying isn't it obvious? If kids feel good and are happy they want to learn and so they thrive. Where I take issue with her is her assumption that making kids feel good means 'nothing was to be difficult'. That's right wing reactionary tosh. Lets not forget that our current more liberal education was established to counter the swathes of children who emerged from schools for decades labelled as failures. So there was a reason it changed - which is because it was lousy for the majority. And yes I agree, there aren't enough good teachers, but good teachers expect each child to do their best and challenge kids in a positive environment to work hard and enjoy learning. That's basic psychology.
Purely anecdotal this, but I'd emigrate rather than have my child go to a primary teach the way I was taught. Which is sadly exactly how MP describes.

Wastwinsetandpearls · 19/01/2010 18:26

Cortina Tue 19-Jan-10 10:56:50
Teachers, I would be interested to know if this comment is correct: 'More recently you could not be graded a good teacher unless you make use of computer facilities and interactive whiteboards, even if their use is totally inappropriate for a particular lesson'. Thanks.:

I am consistently rated outstanding and although I use my whiteboard most lessons I do not always use it ineractively and I rarely use computers when being observed. Certainly in my experience the above is not true.

Wastwinsetandpearls · 19/01/2010 18:46

I can only talk about my own subject but I have only seen evidence of standards rising in the time I have been teaching and certainly from the time I was at school. (Although I was the first set of GCSE graduates I think)

When I think about the work my top set GCSE class do it is far above the work that was expected of me in my top set twenty odd years ago.

I know there are poor schools out there, I taught in one and it was intensely frustrating. As soon as I entered the management of the school I realised that I would have to leave.

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