If you are against Home Ed, can you tell me why?

[Bodenbabe]

I'm in the very early stages of thinking about HE and want to know all the pros and cons. If you are against HE, can you tell me why?

I know that you don't have to be wealthy, but there are lots of women in my area who don't want to work but they have to just to pay the mortgage and put food on the table-it often isn't a question of doing without holidays abroad and a flashy car.
It is a pity that people don't respect other people's choices-I think it is just because they feel insecure, otherwise it wouldn't bother them. People get pushed into one camp or the other like SAHM and WOHM -many people actually are somewhere in the middle.

Oh dear, didn't mean to get people arguing with this thread, sorry

Ah, now, Flexi-Schooling, that's another matter. I was thinking that I'd like to do this, and I still think about it from time to time, but I have been put off it to some extent by the little I've read about it. Besides, it sounds like the vast majority of Heads say no

You also have very little control with flexi-schooling. The Head generally calls the shots.

Is HE a "lesser" experience Starlight? The word I would use is different. Horses for courses - as long as the horse in question is the child rather than the parent (ie what's best for the child).

I agree with pisces. I don't think anyone on this thread has stated that you need to be "wealthy" to HE, just that you need to be relatively well off. Which is true.

I have no doubt some people scrimp and cut back on things to enable them to HE, but you are still starting from the position of one parent not working, or certainly not working full time, for a really significant number of years - especially if you are talking about HEdding a number of children.

That's certainly what I meant by relatively well off. It doesn't mean lots of money, but it does mean better off than families where both parents need to work,

Violethill - it is not true that you have to be relatively well off to HE. Sorry, but you are wrong in that assumption. I only know one or two HE families who I would describe as relatively well off.

Starlight - please read the thread again. I have not stated anywhere that parents who HE are wealthy. So let's stick to what's actually written.

I don't understand the relevance of childcare costs, since this thread is about HE and therefore presumably about school age children?

Yes, some parents have to give up work when their children are pre-school age, because the costs of childcare outstrips their earning capacity. I have known people in this situation, and often they get through those pre-school years by re-mortgaging and running up debts. Once the children are in school, those mothers go out to work, stacking shelves in the supermarket during school hours if necessary because they need the money.

That's the difference between a family who cannot afford to have one parent home in the long term, and one who can.

Can I also clarify (again!) that I am not either pro or anti HEdding. I think it probably works great for some kids, and not for others. Bit like a lot of things!

I am also a firm believer that the parents and home are a huge influence in children's lives anyway, and that an awful lot of learning goes on outside formal schooling, so children get that whether they are in school or not.

I was simply making the point earlier that the starting point for HEdding is having one parent at home in the long term.

i can imagine situations where it would be best to hE though
despite hating much of my time at school, i think long term HE has the following flaws -

1. socialisation .
2. education at higher levels requires expertise in the subject - unless you are a polymath you are unlikely to be able to teach english, maths and science to GCSE standard...
3. if you make a fist at really doing it well, it would absorb an enormous amount of your time.

of course, its up to any individual parent how they educate their child, but if that results in them not getting the Cs in English and maths that are the entry requirements for even really rubbish jobs, that's not doing their kids any favour (though the same allegation could be levelled at some schools..)

on average, HE kids are less likely to get formal qualifications. though ...you never deal with averages. you deal with your own situation.

I am not anti HE but I think to list the cons you need to know what approach to HE is being opposed. HE differs greatly from family to family. A family teaching from a classical trivium curriculum has little in common with an autonomous child-led family.

Generally I would say the cons are burn out for the dp and should the dc not be waking up at a set time and be sitting down ready to begin formal work at a certain time, I could imagine that it is difficult to get accustomed to a routine in the workforce when the time comes. Of course if this is important to you, you will just have to think of a way of giving your dc a regular routine and accustoming them to a type of self-discipline, maybe doing chores straight after breakfast if you are otherwise going the autonomous route.

on your other thread you asked about dc learning to submit to authority. I am not sure that would be important to me but if it is important to a HE dp once again I think you have to think of a way of achieving this outside school. There are a lot of situations where you need to follow rules etc from the obvious (army cadets) through scouts, sports clubs to the less obvious (playing music).

I don't think there are any major cons other than when it does not suit the dp or the dc. Everything else you can work around

I have never met any autonomous educators which is a shame, I'd like to see autonomous education in action. The HErs I know have either a Christian approach and are quite formal in their educational goals (university etc), order a formal curriculum to work with or they want to return to a more traditional (or perhaps old-fashioned) style of teaching (Charlotte Mason, Latin from year 1, logic, rhetoric, lots of ancient history, etc) Cannot honestly see I have seen any cons. They are all very responsible about it, not at all weird and the dc do a lot beyond the work at home and without their dp around (sport, music, camps etc)

EdgarAllenSnow (nice name! ), you said that "on average, HE kids are less likely to get formal qualifications." but surely that's just because they are less likely to take those exams - I don't think that HE has any bearing on their level of education.

As for the authority things, I don't meant to suggest that I want DD to bllndly accept authority without questioning it, I think it's very healthy to question authority! I just mean that at some point or other you do have to deal with it and that having no experience in it may hinder you. But your ideas about Scouts etc. are great.

Fair enought racmac I entirely accept the title of the thread was not brilliant. It came on the back of the Baby P hysteria and I was annoyed because I wasnt being listened to by the authorities. But I clarified several times in the actual thread and it made no difference at all. By then it was decided that the thread was about HE and nothing else. I had never expressed any anti HE feelings at all but I was accused of all sorts. It was horrible.

It was a very bullying thread. People were trying to out me even though I was anon because I didnt want the family identified.

It turns out things were far worse than even I thought. Its very sad.

Also, coming back to my earlier point, I ended up, while doing this study on HE, speaking to a lot of 16 - 18 y olds who had been HE. Without exception, they had either no GCSEs or a smattering of not very high grades at GCSE, eg, one B, one d, one e, and that was all. And these were kids who were definitely bright. They just hadn't had the teaching and input - nor put in the time themselves - that you need to get your 8 As or whatever. For that, I think you almost certainly need school.
You may think that GCSE grades aren't important, and the kids can go to FE school and get some more in their own time post-16 anyway (and some were, very successfully). I'm not sure I would be confident enough in the value of HE to have them end up with the sort of grades that in a school-going kid would suggest "straight to a Mc Job" when in fact they were actually much brighter than that. Woudl be worried that the kid would set their sights too low in life.
I haven't looked into what unis and colleges say about this, whether they would be understanding and make allowances.
Also, Boden bae you need to think through whether you want to spend YOUR days socialising with rather a mix of born-again Christians, libertarians and mums who just don't want to be parted from their children, ever... oh and some nice sane people too - obviously!
I hear what all you HE-ers are saying and am sure you are doing a good job and your kids are flourishing. I just have memories of going to see a "Maths" lesson and the kids (aged 7 and 9) were making pretty pictures with those Hama beads - what a load of crap, frankly. It was not Maths, just passing the time with some not very exciting craft. The very nice, very caring mum was totally kidding herself that it was of educational value.
Money-wise, you need to be sure you can do without your income, long-term, for years and years as would not be fair to hit a rough patch, get a job and shove kid back to school, would it?
Also you have to provide swimming, PE, drama, cookery, history, geography, etc etc yourself and some of that will inevitably cost money. The parents I met who were doing a good job keeping their kids interested and stimulated were forever off to London to the science museum etc, quite pricey if you live far away.
I've always thought I'd like just one extra day a week to do stuff like that with my kids, but their school won't hear of it.

Just popping my head in to say how odd it is to read numerous sweeping generalisations or misconceptions about HE on this thread

And then people who dont HE come along and say - oh no this thread hasnt got sweeping generalisations about HE

Errrrrrrrrr yes it has actually! Lots

well about making generalisations, tbh I don't really know how you can effectively talk about a subject like education without making gneralisations unless you're just recounting your own specific experiences or those of someone else you know.

Which misconceptions struck you Laura?

All parents do Home Ed - it's just that most of them send them to school Monday to Friday...

Not AGAINST HE. Apart from some of the other concerns mentioned I'd be very concerned about the impact on the parent(s) responsible for it who would basically be denying themselves any sort of life (and presumably salary) independent of their children indefinitely.

I think it is disingenuous to suggest that people who HE are not relatively well off. Not only do they have to pay the mortgage, bills etc out of one income, they also have to pay for all these other activities (drama, French etc) mentioned out of one income. Lots and lots of people simply could not afford to do this.

That's exactly what I said earlier caoimhe, and several posters got their knickers in a twist and starting saying 'But not all HEdders are wealthy' blah blah blah

No, not wealthy, but definitely relatively well off, simply because it means one parent will not be working, or at most working only very part time, for a really significant chunk of time.

If you need the money, even if you cannot afford pre-school childcare, you go back to work once they're in school, even if it's minimum wage during school hours.

Therefore, by definition, the possibility of HEdding is denied to a whole swathe of the population.

Not making any value judgement in that, just stating a fact.

Not neccesarily, though, violet. People have all sorts of solutions - one partner working different hours to another (evening & weekend waitressing for example), sharing with other HE families so that each has some days free to work, etc.

Equally, many of the HE families I know are probably living on a much lower income that you might consider even passably acceptable, forget 'relatively well off'. There are plenty of people out there without a mortgage & without that much in the way of bills (in communities, caravans, benders etc).