If you are against Home Ed, can you tell me why?

[Bodenbabe]

I'm in the very early stages of thinking about HE and want to know all the pros and cons. If you are against HE, can you tell me why?

Not against HE as such, but dd (whom I did consult at one time) was strongly against it for the following reasons:

I don't drive and there are no other HEd children her age, so she'd be socially isolated

she is not well in health so looking for learning/stimulation in the community/outside world would be very physically strenuous- travelling makes her ill; chances are she'd be stuck in bed a lot if she wasn't forced to get up.

she reckons she needs something like a workplace where she has a pool of people she meets every day- she pointed out that if I need this, why shoulnd't she?

On top of this, I feel I might easily become too influential in her life: I already have a very great input in her education/outlook on life, and I think we both feel that she needs regular exposure to other adults with other views to counterbalance this-something more than occasional casual encounters.

Starlight, my children's go to a school that have special awards for working with travellers.They have a special coordinator to liase with the teachers to provide work when the children are on the road.In our area (lhertfordshire) there is a huge range in income and types as you put it.

Also not so sure about the lack of social range in schools. The HEdders I have met (admittedly not many) have all been fairly similar in type, they are all people who are interested in education and share certain basic ideas. It would for instance be difficult for a child to gain any understanding of people who don't care for education at all in their company.

Otoh we live in an area that has a fairly wide range of social classes, particularly when added to the friends I make at work. At school, dcs are meeting children from that kind of family, also children whose families find material success very important- and children from families who frankly couldn't care less about learning. I feel that the latter is valuable to dcs; coming as they do from a very intensely academic family, they also need to see that there are people who live in other ways and have other priorities. All part of life's rich tapestry.

'I don't think schools are truly attended by people from all walks of life'

My DCs primary school was -those from the council estate and those in private housing costing over half a million-plus a couple of travellers children. It put off a few people off-who think it rough without looking at it- but those who sent their DCs knew it was excellent.The comprehensive is truly comprehensive in background.

'On top of this, I feel I might easily become too influential in her life: I already have a very great input in her education/outlook on life, and I think we both feel that she needs regular exposure to other adults with other views to counterbalance this-something more than occasional casual encounters. '

I think that is my main reason for not doing it cory. I am a huge influence already-anymore is overkill!

I think as with everything there are pros and cons to both. However I do think it is very important to remember that there will always be some children who are never going to thrive at school due to a combination of special needs. School can be great, but it can also be a place where your needs are not even identified, let alone met, or where you are constantly aware that you are the lowest ability (despite teacher's great intentions and many strategies to minimse this feeling - kids know). School can fail with some kids. I think we do need to protect people's right to withdraw kids from that and give them something else.

I'm aware that i'm talking about a very small proportion - and unless my DS had quite significant SEN I probably wouldn't be so thoughtful on this....but I see every day in my own child, just how good the comprehensive system is for the broad band that lies in the middle, and how bad it can be for those in the narrow band at the bottom. Comprehensive is only comprehensive if you're normal, in our experience.

It does depend on the comprehensive CirrhosisByTheSea-some are wonderful with the band at the bottom and SN-I can't fault ours with their treatment of my dyslexic DS.
Schools fail DCs, but so do parents. The DC is central and people should do the best for the DC-regardless of what other people think.

OH, I don't think HE can't involve doing the best for the DC; I just don't think it would in the case of my dcs- and this is very much due to their SN. And to their immense sociability.

Re. the question "Can I throw a can of worms into it and ask where Steiner might fit into all of this. Do HE's think a Steiner education is generally better than a school education? Do pro-schoolers think that a Steiner education is generally better than a HE? "

From the reverse point of view, if my dd were unhappy/not thriving in school, I would HE, as the only 'alternative' education round here is Steiner, which is, to say the least, somewhat at odds with my/DH's worldview. (And yes, I know that this is imposing our views on our child, but someone somewhere has to strike a blow for scientific rationalism . . .).

schools fail children, so do parents. The child is central and people should do the best for the child, regardless of what other people think

Pisces, you have summed it up. We all need to accept that, usually, parents are doing the best thing for the child whether it's at school or at home! Nuff said, really!

I never really understand why people run down other's choices.
I only comment on HE because of the assumption by (some) HEers that they are the only people who really care about the emotional health of their DC-whereas I think that those who send to school have weighed up the same things and merely come to different conclusions.
I wouldn't use Steiner for my DCs Takver-but if I had a DC that I thought it suited then I would consider it.
I think that everyone should assume that the parent is doing the best thing for their DC and accept that it could be the worst thing for someone else's DC.

What piscesmoon said.

No-one should feel threatened by someone else's choices in how they raise and educate their kids. If I choose to HE in no way am I casting nasturtiums on someone else choosing to send their dcs to school.

"Do pro-schoolers think that a Steiner education is generally better than a HE?" If my only option were a Steiner school I would HE.

Ah, you misunderstand, pisces - I have no problem with other people sending their dcs to a Steiner school (good thing as I've plenty of friends who do), but I wouldn't myself. Bit of a different thing though in some ways as such a lot of parental involvement is expected.

(That is to say, I wouldn't choose the Christian ethos of our local school either, but I don't feel that I am expected to agree with it in order to send my child there.)

I'd agree with the many people (probably the majority of us) who feel that parents know their own children and their own family situations best, and try their hardest to make the best decision for their dc/s

'The teachers profession and bulk of their training is on 'teaching', not their subject area.'

Because it's assumed that you already have a very good subject knowledge before you embark on a PGCE. You have to have a degree in fact.

And I think that's my point, that knowing your subject really well or a load of subjects really well is not the same as being able to teach it really well. Learning to teach is ongoing. I think I'm getting really good at it after 10 years and I am constantly learning and training. I wouldn't want my kids to my guinea pigs with no other input.

Gosh, you step away for a while and there's a huge deluge of posts! Thanks so much for your thoughts, everybody. Sorry, I must admit I'm having trouble keeping up with the long thread!

A few people asked how old my DD was - she is 7 (she had a year in the school's nursery though, which is why you may have thought she was older). To answer why I was considering Home Edding, it is purely because of DD's separation anxiety, I don't have any issues with the school at all. I do understand that some people may think that she will only get more dependant on me but I don't think that's necessarily true. I think children develop confidence when they aren't pushed into something they're not ready for.

Mm, but for every HEder that takes their kids around the world learning about different cultures you have others who have given up an income which means they can't travel anywhere. Or the earlier example of the HE mum who is also a childminder which presumably limits opportunities for travel and other sorts of experiences.

I am very pro-home education.
I think it is the responsiblity of every parent to provide a suitable education for their children. For some that will mean school ( in all its many guises), others HE ( in all its many guises).
The choice on how to do it shoud be a matter for the parents not the state.

However, I don't HE myself.
I have considered it but ultimately I was lucky enough to find a school which fits my wish-list for my DCs.
If I hadn't, or not been able to afford the school would I have HEd?

Perhaps - though I would have had some misgivings. No doubt, though, they could have been circumvented by other families with different set-ups.

Is she your only DC Bodenbabe? Do you have a partner or are there only the 2 of you? I only ask because I was a single mother of an only DS for 8 yrs and was worried about our relationship being too intense.
I just wondered if you could work on the separation anxiety by her spending time with others for short periods-friends, grandparents, babysitters etc? I agree that they do it in their own time-my DS2 never liked to be away from home overnight so I never forced it, or made him feel it was wrong, but I gave plenty of opportunities and he is fine now.
Have her friends round for tea-go out with people as a group etc. (Apologies if you already do these things).

BodenBabe - is she actually unhappy all the time at school? I ask because my ds also misses me hugely when at school and has cried and tells me he feels like crying when he thinks of me and his sister, and makes us cards saying I miss you when at school etc

But, I also know that as well as missing us and that making him feel sad, he has a good time, is happy, joins in etc etc

If your child is missing you, and is unhappy for most of the day, then that's an issue, but if it's more like my ds then I see that as him being able to express and describe very normal feelings, and am glad that he tells me about it so I can say thats Ok/normal to feel like that.

piscesmoon, she's not my only DC, no - I have a 3yo as well and I have a DP. She is usually fine when she stays with her grandparents but does have the odd wobble, and she's fine when she goes to another child's house to play, but only because it's just for an hour or two. Perhaps we should do it some more though.

moominotter, no I don't think she is unhappy all the time. You have a good point about it being a positive thing to be able to express an emoption.

I know a few people who have done it and considered it seriously our selves. Family 1's DS begged to go back to school (age 10) as he felt home ed was ruining his life. academically he did really well with home ed but felt he was missing out socially. mum loved home eding.
Family 2 did it for all kinds of issues surrounding a miss trust of authorities and their children being indoctrantated by the state. When the kids eventually went to school they were very behind and had no social skills.
Family 3 works really well for them . kids doing well, family love doing it all round success/
Family 4 Home ed ing because ds refuses to go to school age 12. mum hates it feels trapped and burdened. relationship breaking down between them but still he prefers this to school. They have never found out what when wrong at school.
We considered it as DS1 has special needs which we felt werent being met at school. However we discounted it as he has always adored school. Ds2 is not so keen on school but I know we would end up with a too intense relationship to be healthy and he needs a break from DS1

I would think that it is just her personality Bodenbabe. My DS1 would go anywhere and do anything so it was rather a shock to have DS2 who was a real 'home bird'.
I am convinced that I did the right thing because you would never guess it now-it just took him a bit longer. I never drew attention to it-I often had to collect him from sleepovers at about 11pm-but I just did it and didn't either cajole or make him feel bad about it. He did it in his own time. The school day can seem long to a DC and very often young ones will say at 10am-'have I had my dinner yet'! Maybe your DD will be better when the younger one goes to school-she may feel that she is missing out because you and her sibling are having fun without her.
I would think that the best thing is to just keep encouraging. I recently had a long chat with a yr 6 DD (I supply teach)and she was very worried because the class were going on a residential visit for 5 days and she kept saying 'I have never even done a sleep over'. I told her all about my DS2 and how wobbly he was in yr 6-and yr 7 but that he was so pleased that he did it and it gets easier the more you try. I am pleased to say that she did it and managed it for the whole time and enjoyed it. Her self confidence back at school was wonderful to see!
I wouldn't HE for the reason you are thinking of. I was a shy, bookish, unsporty, homeloving DC (although I loved school)and 'protecting' me at home would have been the worst thing possible for me. Supporting and gently encouraging is much better IMO.

Your scenarios Mary21,back up my view that it should come from the DC. Family 2 are the ones who are doing it for entirely the wrong reasons.

I noticed that when DC were interviewed on TV about going back to school they were all pleased to be back-and in every case it was to see friends. I think that seeing the *same friends every day is something that HE miss out on. I can imagine that if my mother had HEed me she could have said in surprise (about my friend that she didn't particularly like)'pisces chooses her own friends and she sees Kate every week at guides'. It wouldn't have been the same!

Sorry-I intended to say- going back to school after the days off with snow.

Haven't read all of the thread, but got to page 2 and had to post.
Butterpie "primary school isn't for learning"
What the fuck are you talking about?