Steiner education

[alloveragain]

Can anyone suggest an appropriate forum in which I could talk to someone about Steiner education? We have our concerns about it, but our children are still at a Steiner school.
Thanks

shockers no it was somebody more restless than you. Its just.. I have read those posts thought about them long and hard and yes they all have a point as I have said before and I do feel very sorry for the families concerned and yes in most cases it is probably the school or teacher at fault. It is just some of these posters have said this so many times It becomes a bit unreal after a while.
I had three or four month at the beginning of this year being ignored, belittled by up to ten posters and the same seems to happen again. now 'they' kind of say friends that I see daily may be damaged. freaky stuff...
The school I am involed in is not perfect but staff are well qualyfied there is a programe of ongoing training, health and safety is always a top priority, staff support each other and yes there are parent relation ships that are easier than others.
But on the whole It is what I want for my children the best that is on offer...

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thecaty From the evidence of previous threads you weren't ignored at all, you were taken very seriously indeed. That's the nature of these discussions: it's just that people didn't agree with you. Why does it happen again? You ask, as if it's nothing to do with your resentment, scorn and less than generous comments.

People are just not going to shut up because you don't like what they say. They're not going to agree with you when you say they're lying, twisting (in whatever garb) or leaving a sour taste in your mouth.

What is 'freaky', dare I say it (though it's not a word I normally use) is anthroposophy. Anthroposophy informs all Steiner Waldorf schools. This is bound to lead to trouble, though if you can belittle and discredit detractors (families who have encountered this trouble) you can carry on as if nothing has happened as there are always new families, such is life as long as you can stop people in distress, or shock, or even rage, writing on forums like this.

No one is 'sort of saying' that your friends may be damaged. I am saying (and I will be unequivocal, so there can be no ambiguity) that there is a potential for the pedagogy of the Steiner kindergarten to have an adverse effect on particular children in those kindergartens because it is - I'm going to be polite now - so unusual. This is borne out by the families on these threads and is the reason why the stories can sound so similar and even so 'freaky'. I'm not even going to discuss the concept of 'incarnating through the races' as I know how upset anthroposophists become when reminded of Steiner's less comfortable ideas.

I've had a lot of experience of schools simply because my children are older. All were good in different ways, all had strengths and weaknesses, different schools suited at different times. I don't think Steiner schools are the best that's on offer, which would anyway be an arrogant statement to make about any school system. Importantly: I don't think they offer enough to justify state funding especially when other schools (even outstanding schools) are starved of funds.

I think you need to forget about me and reply to gnomerus Btw I agree that there's a lack of accountability in these schools and that this is really serious.

I did mean its the best on offer for my children!

Gnomesrus yor points and questions are all valid and deserve an answer. Teachers have practical ways such as evaluation forms to monitor the childs progress and at our school the teachers meet with the SENCO often to evaluate each childs academic progress. The SENCO also do class screenings every year. The teachers have all got an advisor, In the first year teachers meet with them at least weekly, do class observation and upraisals.
We have an experienced personell deparment.
In my time there, 1 teacher was dismissed after two month as she was unable to manage her class. Sorry my children need me....

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gnomesrus, you meet with the Senco to talk about the SEN children but also to look at weak areas of all children.
Teachers should have surgery sessions so parents can drop in at a set time every week if they have concerns or questions including academic one's. The school reports should give a good account of your childs attainments including strenghts and weaknesses.
There could be two possibilities for your childrens lack of academic standards 1 bad teaching practise All of what you have mentioned is normally practiced daily and monitored by the teacher, if not then the teachers is not doing his/her job.
2 That your children are slow learners though nothing of what you have said points to that. So it's no1 I guess.
At our school more gets shared with parents of SEN children (2 to 3 extra meetings with parents per year) as they get one or two one to one session per week and obviously concerns need to be passed on to the parents.
At our school we have an experienced out side advisor/mentor for the newer teachers.

thecaty - it's tempting to just ignore you, but since you're commenting on my honesty and apparently even whether I'm a parent (?) I think you owe it to yourself to elaborate on this, before you knit yourself into a corner. I suggest this just doesn't seem wise.

Out of interest, what would you possibly imagine my reason would be to make this stuff up? You, on the other hand, could have many reasons for your accusations; it's really quite transparent. I still haven't worked out whether you miss the meaning in Steiner's work or are simply being disingenuous. You haven't answered restlessnative's question about whether you're a Steiner teacher or not? Why would you want to keep that from a discussion about Steiner schools? Surely your input could be so very helpful, but even that becomes something held back, not told to parents. Don't you see that you illustrate the very points Gnomesrus has made?

The problem with parents "judging for themselves" is that they will not be told the whole story; they are rarely told about anthroposophy, mostly it's never mentioned, and aren't allowed to view a class in session. All they have to go on is what they're told.

Of course I once subscribed to Steiner school education for our children, haven't you read any of the other posts here? That's the whole point; and I still maintain there's much to be loved about some of it, were it not for anthroposophy. We all chose it, we all thought it was marvelous, until we discovered it was based on something which had been kept from us. The teachers were using anthroposophy on our children, from the temperaments to ideas about reincarnation and karma. Anthroposophy isn't mentioned on the school's website, although I'm interested to note that very recently many things have been updated- bullying policies, curriculum policies, teacher's qualifications etc. so perhaps forums like this are forcing them to look at themselves a bit, even if only for appearances sake.

I've written about our experience - but if I link to it the post is usually deleted. It's on the plans waldorf critics site, where there are many other people's too.

ReadPeterStaudenmaier your name has an overwhelming authenticity and truth about it.

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Nobody has answerd my question about all the thousands of people having graduated from Steiner Schools either. And this is over the last eigthy + years, actually there are hundreds of thousands, leading I hope lives like you and me, according to some of you they all are illiterate, possibly damaged from their Kindergarten experience. And then there is the teaching of witchcraft charge.
I think you really need to think of all these people because they may have grounds to be offended. I am not trying to argue you don't have many valid points because you have.

Exactly gnomes, all you say resonates so strongly with our experience.
For what it's worth, many Steiner teachers will say that the children at Steiner school often obtain high grades at GCSE, do you know why? because apparently they are only allowed to take three or four at a time; and I think they take them later too.

thecaty, it would be immensly helpful and refreshing if you would only be open.

I'd be interested to know about the thursday college of teachers meetings - described by P and G Woods, ( who wrote the DFSS report on Steiner schools) "the weekly collegiate meeting as involving shared meditative work (through spiritual verses, artistic work, and so on), shared study (e.g. child study, reading and discussion of anthroposophical works),..............important time was devoted to bringing forward names of children whom the teachers considered would benefit from reflection. Each teacher gave names of children, together with a brief reason. Significant time and attention was also given to child study of two pupils, whose study was spread over two meetings."
I wonder how many parents have seen any of the notes about their children from these meetings? Or indeed whether there are notes at all.

There just seems to be so much that is kept away from scrutiny; and since public money is now funding at least one Steiner school, surely they should be accountable and open.

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thecaty the only people who ever made an accusation about Steiner schools teaching witchcraft were their own supporters, in an attempt to distract attention from that dodgy pedagogy.

I can't protect graduates of Steiner schools from the facts about anthroposophy: it's too late. Luckily it sounds as if most of them will survive the shock But I can protect the public who deserve to know these facts NOW and help to prevent any more public money coming your way. And I fully intend to do this.

gnomesrus just want to wish you all the best

Curiously the Steiner Teacher Training course has disappeared from the website of the University of Plymouth. Gone. Nada. Possibly it'll return refreshed in a few days but even so... how odd.

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thecaty - who's mentioned witchcraft?

My dd was "encouraged " to use her right hand, had to knit right handed, (and so was friend of my brother's dd at the same school last month) but this is, according to steiner, about karma and past lives, - left handedness is one of the things teachers are apparently instructed to change in children, in order to ameliorate their next life and current incarnation. My question is, if this was being done to my child, what other surreptitious things were happening to do with her karma and past life? Without our knowledge?

By the way thecaty- I'm genuinely interested as to what you say about my being a "genuine parent,.... honesty and thruthfulness..." and that I'm "a sham". What am I being dishonest about? Do you know me?
I assume you've read what I've written about what happened at the school on the plans waldorf critics site? And which parts aren't true?
Those are strong (and bitter) statements- you really should support things like that you know, or it could lead you into trouble.

hmmm, I wonder how a school would answer in defence of being asked if those terrible things had really happened? I suspect they would try their hardest to discredit the mother who had written them, don't you?
Just as that half man half felted insect thebee tries and tries with various people who write stuff he doesn't like. I'm sure ReadPeterStaudenmaier would agree.

restless - how interesting about the Plymouth course details being taken from the web. Those describing modules on the image of the human being derived from anthroposophy and stuff like that? - modules on philosophy and anthroposophy - evolution and development?
Of course the teacher training has been called "anthroposophy training" by some I believe. They would do well to have a good look at it - particularly since public money is already pouring in to these schools.

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Hilarious - have just this minute been alerted to this

roll it up forum where the ex steiner school posting through an "ahrimanic medium", divorced from a eurythmist, in and out of anthroposophy for all his life is interested in biodynamic growing of a special kind.

But to be fair, he could hve gone to any school.

And I do know a few children from our children's school who seem do have done well, but thecaty, they would have done well anywhere. And that has been said by so many people before. Their backgrounds, usually middle class, creative types, interested committed parents etc etc.

gnomes- yes, I wish I'd read it before we'd committed ourselves. I wish I'd read anything but the books the teacher recommended, which of course said nothing but sanitised lovely head heart hands stuff.
I'm sure some interested party will have a copy of the teacher training modules somewhere..... before they disappeared.

Thecaty- why won't you answer whether you are a teacher or not? It's just making you look, well frankly, more than foolish.

And btw- go ahead and email the story of what happened to ours (and others) kids at -- school to your friends- it's on the waldorf critics site plans- it's called A Very Alternative Education. The only thing which might be inaccurate are the dates, because I wrote it before I'd managed to retrieve some of the teachers emails from my old computer.

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gnomesrus re University of Plymouth: I believe the Steiner info has been gone a couple of weeks. It could be 'reconstruction' or there could be a re-writing of the courses, I don't know. But I am aware that the teacher training course details as they last stood have been copied and that the course materials, details of the new Masters in Steiner Education and the reading list have been obtained through the Freedom of Information Act and are now all in the public domain.

Happy Halloween!

Gnomes - the cached version of the Plymouth course is there Plymouth BA course and
Steiner education BA modules

TheCAty,
without wanting to give you any more ammunition for the future with this advice, I want to let you know that your posts are noticeably embittered and agressive, compared to the stressed and worried tone of the posters who have written that they have been unsatisfied with the Steiner system (whatever that is... I just clicked on this thread because it was in active convos. NO sTeiner school exist in the country I live in and I love Montessori, so am always open to new ideas).