Steiner education

[alloveragain]

Can anyone suggest an appropriate forum in which I could talk to someone about Steiner education? We have our concerns about it, but our children are still at a Steiner school.
Thanks

Having had late reading children myself I can agree with you that their self-esteem can suffer-temporarily-or even permanently. I can't agree it's too big a price to pay though I understand if parents feel that damage to their or any child's self esteem is insufferable. Personally, I'd have to fully understand what the actual benefits of late reading are, in order to weigh the cost.

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If you're interested in Steiner education I would visit your nearest Steiner school and take it from there, as it seems all schools are different.

Cambridge Steiner School was recommended to us by two sets of friends, one of whom has a child who was refusing to go to school. It's a school that has changed a lot over the last few years, and its EY provision was recently rated as "outstanding" by the Schools Inspection Service (equiv. of Ofsted for private schools).

Its primary school was rated as "good with outstanding features".

There's good and bad of course, but this year the primary classes have done stuff like walk 10 miles to Ely, walk to and sing in a local old people's home, spend a week on a community farm in Yorkshire working with disabled people, make clay models of the British Isles for geography etc. My children are in the kindergartens and I do want them to go to the primary school.

As far as I have seen in two years everything has been pretty straightforward, although, and this is really important to know, it's community-driven which makes things quite messy and communication is often less than perfect. On the other hand, the best thing has been seeing my children being part of a community which somehow instinctively works at community values.

We are also actively part of our local "street level" community - where we are, children on one street go to all sorts of different schools - 3 or 4 different state primaries, plus a sprinking of private schools, and the local community thrives despite not being school based. We value both communities.

My main concern is the final year of kindergarten (6-7years) might not be challenging enough and I'm hoping to get the school to address this through the school management team (which I'm on - not that that makes it any simpler!)

So I would say, look into it. It sounds here as if there might be some very weird schools out there, but I find it hard to believe that this is the norm. The teaching in our Steiner school is good, and the children are lovely.

I should say, I am an atheist, so definitely not connected to any religious organisation.

If you are interested in Steiner education I would read the teacher training list and take it from there, all teacher training is exactly the same

oHeleno, the final years of kindergarten are supposed to be "unchallenging". The children are incarnating and strengthening their etheric bodies:

This is from St Michael Steiner School newsletter only last week - (scroll down to next page)

"When children say things in kindergarten are "boring",
they are feeling the strengthening of the etheric body,
and the astral body's reaction against it. The natural
birth of the astral body occurs during lower school
years and children with strong etheric bodies will be
better able to cope with this."

The Schools Inspection Service isn't really like ofsted, if that's what your school told you. The only schools they inspect are Steiner Schools and Brethren schools

[[http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4221
The Cult Awareness]] information page has this to say

"Focus Learning Trust runs 26 schools on behalf of the Exclusive Brethren, an evangelical Christian sect. They too have won the right to set up their own inspectorate ? the Schools Inspection Service."

I don't know about you, but I would be extremely wary of a group of schools who choose to be inspected by these people. Why would they choose an organisation who exclusively inspects only two types of school? One of which is on the radar of the Cult Awareness site.
And it looks as if all Steiner schools use them.

(And I'll bet the farm wasn't any old farm, was it a Camphill?)

I get a bit fed up with people running down ordinary primary schools. Most of them are really good.
They stay on farms, go on walks, plant trees, sing, weave, have orchestras, make felt, learn French, play recorder, make clay models too.......

But if schools like Brethren and Steiner get masses of money from Gove as free schools, the ordinary primaries will probably have to cut many of these essential creative activities, and imo that is very wrong.

(And Steiner art is grim)

Hi - we're thinking of sending one of our kids to our local Steiner School. Having visited it for the open day we were impressed with the children and with the atmosphere. Reading this thread is alarming - why are some people so scared and what has happened? Only just joined Mumsnet so not sure what the policy is on how much info people can give.

As with all schools there are good and bad and it is usual to hear more of bad experiences. My youngest ds goes to a steiner school he is in Year 8. I was realy impressed when I looked at the school and he settled in quickly. The work he is doing is of a very high standard, he is learning 3 languages as well as having the opportunity to study a wide range of more practical subjects. he has become far more confident since he started there and this has been commented on by many friends and family. I think it is a great pity that more of the people who give me that 'really' look when I say where he goes to school went along to an open day and looked for themselves I certainly got a far more positive feel for it than I did at the huge high schools which were my only alternative. Despite the normal comments we are used to about not watching tv etc and eaing nothing but lentils we actually do have tv, internet xbox etc and I do not limit his access but have noticed since he went there that he chooses to spend more time reading or playing outside.

Our kids spent 2 1/2 years in a Steiner school. One was in kindergarten and one was in from class 1-3. Our experience was mixed.

Positives:
Music
Crafts
shorter days
emphasis on play for longer
emphasis on modern languages
close community
anti-commercialism
Outdoor play
Cooking
Focus on nature
Positive focus on nutrition

Negatives
bullying unchecked
one teacher for extended periods of time (so after 2 years the well was running dry..)
Very pressured environment (in terms of expectations on family life)
Academic under-achievement
Very little variation in curriculum - at first it all felt really different because it was so different to anything else we had seen but in the end it all felt very samey (knitting, wet-on-wet-painting, crayons, felting, wax modelling, clay modelling).
Anthroposophy (it was the elephant on the sofa ) but it was the reason for the ever growing list of naughties (no tv, no computers, no rock n roll, no plastic, no polyester, no black, no corners, no microwaves, no clay under 8, no pictures on clothes, no evolution, no science (under 8), no labelling, no cinema, no books (under 7), no more than one bed time story, only pentatonic lyres (under 7), no recorded music, no comics, beware libraries) I haven't made one of those up.
Chaotic organisation and no accountability.

I don't know why people are scared. It was quite upsetting for us at the time we left because Steiner Schools are like families, so when you choose to leave, it's very loaded, but I was never scared. People were neurotic about their children and somewhat evangelical, but very well intentioned.

Hope this helps.

Good luck with your decision.

Hello! This is my first post to mumsnet. I would like to share with you my experience of Steiner Schools and Waldorf education. My own experience has, on the whole been a positive one. My two children now aged 20 and 22 spent their whole school life at our local Steiner school, from 3 years until after GCSE's. They went on to the local sixth form college and then onto university. My son to study English and American literature (he wasn't really interested in reading before 8ish, more at home hanging from trees) and my daughter to study Geology at Durham. All of my daughter's class went on to further and/or higher education which is by no means unusual. Academic underachievement is not something I recognise from "our" school. However schools vary enormously just as they do in the state or any other system. You get good ones and bad ones! The curriculum is only as good as the person delivering it, as in all schools.

It is true that the class teacher stays with the child for 8 years, though in reality this rarely happens as 8 years is nowadays an unrealistic commitment. My daughter had a great teacher who was with them throughout and my son had 3 or 4 teachers. The 8 years is great if you have a good teacher but yes, this cant be guaranteed.

My experience is that the teachers may teach out of their understanding of anthroposophy but they do not "teach anthroposophy". This seems an important distinction.

Some of the good bits;
time to really enjoy the all too brief early years,
dedicated teachers,
caring community,
reverence for nature and the world
encouragement to question
confidence in own abilities

Some of the other bits!
Patchy communication
being perceived as weird!
wacky anthroposophists who give the movement a bad name
lack of resourses
organization a bit hit and miss

Apparently Steiner said "don't judge anthroposophy by anthroposophists!"

Best wishes

I don't think everyone is scared - I wasn't scared. People are cautious and if they've had very bad experiences, which some have, they can be traumatised.

Some news for those interested: Rudolf Steiner schools in England fail to win government funding

There seems to be a lot of anthroposophy in my link happilyathome I wonder why?

And here's the London Waldorf Seminar - Steiner education teacher training

A great deal of anthroposophy has slipped through - will you look at that!

"Anthroposophical study - study of Steiner?s education and other lectures to support and deepen understanding of Anthroposophy as the basis of Steiner education. Essential texts are The Education of the Child in the Light of Anthroposophy and The Study of Man (The Foundations of Human Experience) and these have been supplemented at various times by The Kingdom of Childhood, Waldorf Education for Adolescents, The Spirit of the Waldorf School, Practical Advice to Teachers and Discussions with Teachers, as well as individual lectures and passages from other books and lecture cycles, chosen by individual tutors. Study of lectures on festivals is also an important part of the study curriculum. While these are not studied directly on the course, students are encouraged to read Steiner?s basic books Knowledge of the Higher Worlds (How to Know Higher Worlds), Theosophy and Occult Science (Esoteric Science) to gain a good grounding in Anthroposophy."

If anthroposophy is the concern just of a few 'wacky' teachers who appear to have accidentally wafted into Steiner schools and is otherwise irrelevant, what is it doing as a vital part of this teacher training course? And if you have not read 'Knowledge of the Higher Worlds', you might like to do so. Although I would understand if you threw it aside in... surprise.

I could add a few more things Steiner really did say, but no one wants me to do that

Wow, hostile...first and last post me thinks

happilyathome it's alarming, isn't it? But if you proselytize for a school system based on occult theories, you might expect to be confronted with what its teachers are actually taught. They may not teach anthroposophy to the children, but why is it there? And what are the consequences of its presence for dcs less fortunate than yours?

I was originally very into the whole Steiner system...I glossed over the real anthroposophical aspect because I was rather desperate to get my daughter into anywhere that wasn't mainstream school system. She was very unhappy in mainstream school aged 6 so I put her into the Kings Langley Steiner school. At first she was very happy and then after a year or so she was quite happy with the social aspect but rather bored with the rest. I didn't really listen though because like many other parents I became so enchanted by the caring nurturing aspect of Steiner schools from a young age. It seemed the idyllic way to educate young children. And I stand by that for now. I do believe my daughter was fine there up until the age of 10. I think she was cared for and nurtured by her class teacher. However she was a well liked pupil and these that were't so liked..i.e the non favourites of the class teacher were slightly let be. They were given a minimum amount of attention really. Anyway the boredom and disconnection that my daughter experienced grew and grew. I kept chatting to the class teacher about it and he always gently explained that kids go through this phase and perhaps she was tired or needed earlier nights or things would just pan out okay. I was told this about everything. Including maths! Her maths was not at all good and he simply said it would all be okay. Eventually I got some extra tuition (thank god ) or she would have been even more behind. Anyway I think the disconnection my daughter felt was because she didnt really fit in. And fitting in with Steiner seems to be rather crucial. Not only for the kids. My daughter made an enormous effort to fit in but in some ways she felt she had to dumb down intellectually and make herself more innocent emotionally to fit in with the emotionally young kids she was in a class with. This immaturity is encouraged by many parents who dont seem to be able to accept aging in either kids. In fact teenagers are really overindulged and not encouraged to be independent really. And confrontation and darkness which can emerge in a teenager (a natural expression of a darker side that all humans need to express) is positively discouraged. Everything is supposed to be lovely and happy and positive. Nothing is dealt with when a darkness or confrontation arises. This is the inherent problem with Steiner. In summary I manage finally to see how my daughter was not thriving and so we got her out. And phew!! she is happier now, Much happier. I wish I had got her out at aged 10. I now realise that Steiner schools are great for kids from toddler up to 10. But my advise is dont keep them in there any longer.

well, i started off reading this because I am looking to move to an area that has a Steiner school, although i am taking a gamble as the school is very over subscribed and there is a lengthy waiting list. I has taken me several hours to plough through this and I have gone through a range of emotions.

Here is my story, I am moving down to Herefordshire in the next year so my son can attend a Steiner school.

I had a son 26 years ago, i was a single parent, he was very intellectual and was attending a state school, he could be disruptive and bored easily because they didnt allow him to progress further than they could cope with, he would always finish his work before everyone else, everyone seemed to have to be at the same level. He also suffered some severe bullying because of his weight that was never dealt with and I lost all faith in the state school system. I moved from Herefordshire to Cheshire and worked my socks off to put him through a small private school, he thrived and went on to obtain a scholarship to a top boarding school and completed a law degree. He grew up without a TV or computer, not for any reason other than i didnt feel it was good for him.

18 years later i gave birth to my second son, when it came time for school i put him in the same private school that my 1st son attended, what a mistake to make. He suffered two years of really bad bullying, he was self harming and constantly wishing he was dead. His confidence and self esteem had virtually disppeared, but as i had been a part of the school for so many years I discussed the issues with the head and stuck with it, in the end it got too much and i was worried about my sons emotional state. He was made to write with his right hand even though he wrote with bothe hands and preferred to use his left. I have always suspected that he suffers from a very high functioning aspergers, but as i am aware of it and can deal with it and it is getting milder as the years go by i dont feel the need to have him statemented.
I decided to move him to a more expensive school, with great facilities and surrounded by woodland which he loves. He spent a year there and wanted to leave, he didnt like the structure, complained of being picked on, but no -where near as bad as the previous school, he didnt like the pressure to do sports etc.
Last year i moved him to a state school, he is doing much better and whilst he is doing the things he likes out of school now, ( he loves the Arts, he has tap, modern, street and jazz lessons and attends theatre school) he still hates the formality of 'regimental school' and the fact that he cannot be himself, he is an environmentalist, and he takes the lead on eco issues and me and his father follow as we need a lot of educating on these matters.

I am grateful to all the posters and all the views as there is food for thought and I have thoroughly read the Ofsted report for the school, I will be putting his name down for the school, as it is very over subscribed and has a waiting list for nearly all years. I think this type of education will be the making of this son, just as i had to find it for the other son.
I have had good and bad experiences in all types of schools and believe me I am not loyal to any one type as all have good points and all have faults and not all your children are the same or do as well in the same type of environment.

Whatever environment you are looking to put your child into, do your research, listen to first hand experience and beware of potential pitfalls, but be aware one persons bad experience doesnt make it another person bad experience.

I will let you know how it goes if we ever make it.

oh and before you ask, this son has a tv, laptop, x box and wont be getting rid of them unless he wants to.

We do eat organic food, we also smoke.

I am another parent with a horrendous experience. Am I able to talk about it freely here?