Steiner education

[alloveragain]

Can anyone suggest an appropriate forum in which I could talk to someone about Steiner education? We have our concerns about it, but our children are still at a Steiner school.
Thanks

Sakura I think Montessori is great too

Today I was told that The University of Plymouth has closed its Teacher Training Courses in Steiner Waldorf Education. It was the only place in the UK that offered state funded training for Steiner teachers. From the SWSF site, which has not yet removed this information:

'University of Plymouth
A Foundation Degree in Steiner Waldorf Early Childhood Education. A two-year programme for Early Years Practitioners and Assistants. Operates through flexible and distributed learning. It is taught in a variety of locations and is structured to enable students to study over some weekends, in residentials and in the classroom. Possibility exists for accrediting previous experience or qualifications. Successful participants will receive a Steiner Waldorf Early Years Foundation Degree. This is accredited at Level 5. There is a progression to the Steiner Waldorf BA (Hons.), an Early Childhood Studies degree or Early Years Professional Status.'

There appear to be a number of other (non state funded) anthroposophy and Waldorf courses at other settings across the UK which have recently disappeared or are not running this year.

The University of Plymouth say that they have closed their Waldorf courses due to low numbers of students. Privately I suspect that the qualifications former students needed to join these courses (and become Steiner Waldorf teachers) were not high compared to those demanded by other teacher training courses within the University, which meant the Steiner courses were low 'point scorers'. Plymouth wants to be known as a prestige University and other courses have been dropped since a new VC was appointed.

The University said 'other pathways' would be found for students, which I guess means they will be offered help to join other early-years or teaching training courses.

That was pretty bland! Meanwhile, some of us may wonder if the VC of Plymouth had noticed the closure of the Waldorf Steiner teacher training course at Stockholm University last year. Since the Tories plan to introduce the 'Swedish Model' of education, this may be an important point for future policymakers.

So who will be the teachers in those new Tory Steiner Academies when a University endorsed training course can't attract enough students, even when there's a possibility of State funded Steiner schools in the near future? And if Steiner ed is so unpopular with potential teachers, why has the Hereford Steiner Academy, the only school to secure funding under Labour, just received several million £s for its new building project (for the very few children in the school)?

Hmmm. Questions questions. No wonder they call me restless

"thecaty, the only people who ever made an accusation about Steiner schools teaching witchcraft were their own supporters, in an attempt to distract attention from that dodgy pedagogy."

Sacramento Bee: "School is teaching witchcraft, critics say (Published May 16, 1997)"

Sacramento Bee: Editorial: The attack on Oak Ridge (Published June 10, 1997)

Is that what the US judges thought as well?

Sakura, I don't feel embitterd or agressive,
more often in my live I have been in the role of diplomacy. Obviously some thing has gone wrong.

According to Polly Curtis, the course has closed but:

"Michael Totterdell, pro vice-chancellor for Plymouth's faculty of education, said: "The University of Plymouth has ceased recruitment to its undergraduate Steiner Waldorf degree courses. However the courses have not closed and students who started in September 2009 will be fully supported throughout their studies.

"The university is currently identifying the possibility of integrating a Steiner Waldorf Education pathway within its BA (hons) Education Studies degree and will have further details available in the new year. The University of Plymouth remains strongly committed to Steiner Waldorf Education and continues to offer postgraduate and research opportunities in this subject area. It is also actively engaged in discussions with the international Steiner Waldorf community concerning ambitious plans for a range of academic and professional practitioner offers."

So what is Michael Totterdell doing?

But the Times Ed has a different emphasis:

Ax Falls on only Steiner undergraduate course

But university insists it remains committed to niche subject

'The only university undergraduate course in Steiner teaching has been closed "due to a lack of interest", The TES has learnt.

The University of Plymouth took the decision to kill off the course because of poor recruitment and retention of students over the past three years.

In Steiner education, children keep the same teacher for a number of years, there is no formal hierarchy among staff and no formal learning until age seven. Its advocates claim that its fundamentals are based around creativity and co-operation.'

There is an analysis of the Plymouth Steiner course closure on the web which in my opinion is not libelous but sadly, if I post a link here it will be deleted. So you can't read it unless you can find it yourselves.

I love the new biscuit icon! I also have nothing to say (I am so gnomed-out) on the matter of #steiner. lol.

The Guardian with Britain's only Steiner university course closes tells more about the economic background for the decision:

"The only dedicated university course for training Steiner school teachers struggled to recruit students after government cuts tripled fees"

'The University of Plymouth took the decision to kill off the course because of poor recruitment and retention of students over the past three years.'

Times Ed

Restless, there is a new article on butterfliesandwheels.com that explains in much more detail what Plymouth is up to.

It's on the front page of news

Interesting speculations going on here but where is the link to the original Question?
Would it make sense to post on Waldorf critics website!

Message withdrawn

I myself have no access to posting anything on the Waldorf Critics website, which is anyway difficult for anyone on mumsnet to find as every time anyone posts a link to it or even the website address, or says they found it useful, their post is deleted.

Instead I recommend anyone who cares about libel law in the UK read today's article in the Independent by Yasmin Alibhai-Brown: How libel laws silence our democracy

Deleting this post would be ironic

Ok my post was deleted, probably for the reasons restlessnative states as i had mentioned the unmentionable website?

I don't get it, how does it work? Does someone have to complain to them to get something deleted or is it just mumsnet themselves that gets worried about libel claims?

Any road the gist was, I decided against sending dd to steiner school as they were evasive in answering some of our direct questions in the open morning; I started checking criticisms out online & my friend who does send her child to the school has concerns over bullying, cultish behaviour & is generally made to feel like a bad parent! We decided that steiner is not for us & definitely not for our dd. Shame as I had been so enthusiastic.....

I have answered your question

Message withdrawn

Thecaty no you have not answered my questions. I will include them all again from 29-30 October 2009 (saving you having to hunt them down).

You wrote - "They may not have had a proper hearing which is not good enough, and we need to learn from that."
I asked - Are you saying that there is an impartial governing body within the fellowship to which the schools are answerable to?
....The Fellowship has experienced advisors and can make more than strong recomandations to any school within the uk.

You wrote - "They may have been dealing with an inadequate teacher which is not good enough and our schools need and do learn from that."
I asked - How are they dealt with, who measures them and how do you avoid past mistakes? .......Teachers get sacked or disiplined,The College , trustees and Personell departments are responcible for measuring ( whatever you mean by measuring)
This differs slightly from school to school.

You wrote - "If you are saying we need to improve in some areas then I would agree with you."
I asked - Which areas do you think the schools need to improve in and how would they be implicated and measured?
...look above!!!

You wrote - "They are seductive in the sense that they sound so convincing but if you actually look at each one (story) and find out what really happened on both sides you will often find the language used by the critic OTT." what Thecaty means here is that ex-parents who criticise the system are 'seducing' potential parents and readers into believing their 'OTT stories'.
I asked - Can you back this statement up with impartial evidence please?
.....Their language is seductive not the parents. For evidence plough through MN blogs on Steiner Education.

You wrote - "I am closely involved at our school and 6 out of 12 families that have left the school in the ten years did not talk to the teachers directly about their concerns but launched formal complaints about petty things that then got blown out of proportion because they were formal complaints and the School takes formal complaints seriously."
I asked - What 'things' did you consider to be petty, trivial, their fault?
I never said its their fault. please do not put words into my mouth! and also I never said trivial. I sugesst you read my statement again and will find it really does not require an answer.

I also asked - I am aware that steiner schools refuse to offer SAT tests but how does the school measure my childs learning and correct any areas of weakness?
I have answered this question in earlier blogs but here we go again for your benefit.
Classes get screened once a year at our school by our experienced SENCO. Our teachers keep daily records of each childs progress, weak areas, need for exta practise etc. As math and literacy get practised daily this is not difficult and totally stress free for the children. Please refer to the Handbook for Waldorf teachers published by the felloship.
Ofstead are very happy about our schools record keeping.

To all the concerned parents who have messaged me, our kids are now going to a mainstream school in the new year. Thank goodness.

What has happened to this thread it is all muddled!

alloveragain,interestig process? you have gone through!
good luck to you.

Interesting is probably not the best way to describe it. However we are very relieved to have the children out of Steiner. And we would recommend anyone considering it for their children to research it well and to try and ascertain as best they can (and that is the difficult part), that the school is being totally tranparent about their policies, teaching methods and beliefs.