Steiner education

[alloveragain]

Can anyone suggest an appropriate forum in which I could talk to someone about Steiner education? We have our concerns about it, but our children are still at a Steiner school.
Thanks

Why was my message deleted?
Are they afraid of people reading ANYTHING about Steiner waldorf that isn't written by Steiner Waldorf pushers??
FFS.
It had a link to a recently published article "Six Facts you need to Know about Steiner Education"
Google it.

I saw the deleted post. It was measured & kind to the poster mentioned. There was a link to an Australian Rationalist Society article expressing a complex analysis & interpretation of Steiner education in that country, where public money is involved. Such analysis is to be expected in a democracy.

I could see nothing libelous in it or anything that could connect mumsnet to its views, any more than a link to someone's favourite song would be a thumbs up to talent.

If we believe in freedom of information we should allow adults to read material like this & make up their own minds, unless we believe them incapable. My brief experience of mumsnet reassures me that's far from the case! People can't make informed choices about something as serious as education when they are not allowed to read differing opinions. When government funding for Steiner schools may well be increased in the UK in the near future, this suppression of information due to a real or perceived threat becomes a matter of public concern.

Today Richard Dawkins spoke at the Libdem conference about the need to repeal the UK's libel laws. Such a thing is overdue, as those following the Simon Singh case know well and this is a link to a description of that case & is in no way itself libelous!

It's clear from the Quackometer article that it isn't just science that's effected: 'Free speech is reduced to a meaningless freedom as long as it does not effect business interests, political ambitions and dogmatic beliefs.'

This is serious. And sadly not irrelevant to this thread.

'It is time for a change. It is time for us to be free from fear when voicing our concerns.'

Truth is a defence against a charge of libel.

It is strange but interesting to me to read people's views on Steiner. I had never realised there were such negative views around. I find it puzzling, when most of the central tenets of Steiner (children as developing creatively and spiritually as individuals) seem so relatively attractive (at least compared to the exam-functional attitude of mainstream.) I would have sent my child to a Steiner school if I could have afforded it. Reading contributions have been food for thought.

btw, just to add, i have just actually read some of the negative criticism on here and other sites recommended. The commentators seem furious - but in a demented and obsessive way. They say Steiner harmed their children but never why or how. Just that it was boring, or they didn't like the spiritual "fuzzy" side (ermmm... what about other normal religious schools?!), or they didn't like the new-age, ethereal stuff (i would guess you would have to be a bit that way enclined to stump up the money for such a school, otherwise you wouldn't bother surely?!) Perhaps there are cult elements, but some people say they didn't experience that. I am not entirely surprised Steiner got fed up of the campaigns against it and felt libelled on mumsnet and other places.

this is not meant as a criticism of those who have genuine concerns about how their child fared in a Steiner school. some people's comments based on experience were really interesting. but many of the anti-brigade here on mumsnet and survivor websites just come across as barmy to me.

anyway, i hope all the children who needed to move are faring much better.

Message withdrawn

Hi Gnomes- I meant to reply to your much earlier post, thanks for what you said
I rarely post on mumsnet these days...things have moved on...
I'm so glad things are going better for your dc's.

I do so agree with your reply to fleetwoodmac- no one can have an inkling of what this is about unless they have actually been through it.
The fury you talk about fleetwood- is well founded.
If the schools have no reason to be secretive and evasive, why are they?
This education system is based on a cosmology which teaches that
skin colour signifies the ability to absorb spirituality,
actions are dictated or led by karma
and many bizarre supernatural beliefs are truths.
These aren't just "fuzzy" new age things as you put it- they are the entire basis of the curriculum and life in the school.
If the college of teachers are discussing a problem for instance, they apparently look to Steiner's writing for indications of how to deal with it.

The difference between, say, the village C of E school and Steiner schools is that a) most people are aware of Christian beliefs and b) in a Steiner school, one gradually comes to realise that they really really believe this stuff, and use it as a guide. One would hope that in C of E schools, a teacher doesn't look in bible to see how to deal with an incident of bullying or wild behaviour.

Steiner teachers are trained with Steiner's work; his so called child development model.

One question I would ask is, why is there a support group for people who have left these schools do you think?

It is huge, and many people there are frightened to go public.

Another home schooler here whose dyslexic son has been irretrevably damaged by one horrible Steiner teacher. As a family we had over 10 years in that school
That said, I can still see positives so I use what I agee with and ignore the handknit your own organic lentils lunacy.

These threads make me both very angry and very sad- northern I'm so sorry I havent managed to do more- I promise you its not from lack of wanting to help

gnomesrus you're amazing, really, in your generosity. When someone is silly enough to write about something serious they know nothing about AND diss those who have experienced it through their little children, you could have cause for stronger language.

Likewise the chiropractors must have felt they had cause for libel when Simon Singh called them into touch. It's the last recourse of any charlatan to use the UK's laughable libel laws to defend the indefensible. ra29needsabettername it's OK. But those who twitter will notice 'Steiner Schools' mentioned a fair bit nowadays in the amusing & influential skepticverse.

bohomummy- sorry about your son.
Our daughter was diagnosed as dyslexic after leaving Steiner school; reading Steiner and the books that are used in their teacher training, one soon comes to realise that they see difficulties like this as karmic, or something to do with past lives; the children have probably, in their view, brought it upon themselves, and need to work it through.

From a rational and human point of view, this just seems crazy at best, and cruel and harmful at worst.

When someone like you obviously gave so much, and appreciate the good things there can be in the schools, following such (imo) damaging belief system is more sad.

Hi ra29needsabettername as restlessnative says- it's ok.
Can't say too much here

v interesting reading - could I just ask if anyone could delicately state what makes a steiner education different from 'normall'? I don't know of it. Do they just delay reading and writting basically????? Sorry to be ignorant .

Steiner education stems from a different philosophy, uses different methodology, and holds a different objective than 'normal' schools.

"normal"school?

Northern, still at it are we? has your genuine parent tag not worn yet? I give you 0 credit on the honesty and thruthfulness score. that is my vote! a sham, you are...I am afraid to say, from the bottom of my heart.
It is really sad to read the same old faces rambling on, guessing,... a wonderfully seductive but empty effort to discredit someting you once subscribed to. It leaves me with a twisted aftertaste, Northern.

btw anyone still reading: theCaty teaches at a Steiner school. It's a great loss to satire that he doesn't have his own blog

stressy - rudolf steiner based his views on education on his philosophy, and this still underpins the methods used in the schools, though they do not teach it directly. The results of this philosophy include such things as not teaching reading and writing until the child's adult teeth have come in, teaching that gnomes and other such things are real (not just in a "fairy stories teach us interesting things" way, but genuinely existing), and that the purpose of education is to help children to "incarnate fully" into their bodies.

Many families are unhappy that they and their children have been "tempted" by the cosy "otherness" of the schools, without being made fully aware of the effects this system will have on their children.

They are also unhappy that the vigilance with which Steiner supporters threaten lawsuits against websites and forums which post criticism makes it very difficult for them to discuss the problems they have had with other parents who may be considering Steiner education without being aware of the negative experiences which some have had.

Personally, I do not have experience of Steiner education, though I considered and decided against it for my DS. But I have read enough of these threads to think it is important for parents to be allowed to discuss the issues, and therefore try to post in a non-lawsuit-encouraging way, while suggesting that parents should always look very thoroughly into their choice of schools.

Restlessnative, I hear the
Alliance for Childhood and the Open Eye Campaign are particularly keen on Steiner, though I am told this has has nothing to do with the founders Chrisopher Clouder and Richard House being Anthoposophists.

ok - it takes allsorts to make the world go round.
The agressive protectors of the method are maybe insecure ???
I don't understand why they can't accept that it's not for everyone though. I don't really have any experince of it though.
I once went into a school out of term time, for some work, and it had no right-angles anywhere!!

Still hollow garb... I am afraid to say.
hollow digs and guess work.

ReadPeterStaudenmaier blimey that article explains a lot! Would be a good idea for Ed Balls or possibly Michael Gove (if we vote in the Tories) to read a bit of Rudolf Steiner before funding any more Steiner Academies or kite-marking the Steiner Waldorf Schools Fellowship (not in black marker of course but in a blurred woo-on-woo way)

imo AMumInScotland puts it succinctly & accurately. In order for parents to look thoroughly into their choice of school they need to have information, especially when the philosophy underpinning a particular education system is so far from what we'd consider 'normal'.

Of course the objective of Steiner schools IS different. When parents understand that, things start to make more sense.

I hope the article link stays here. If anyone feels it should not, it would be useful if they stated why.

The poster making vaguely threatening, bizarre comments using the words 'twisted aftertaste' and 'hollow garb' might like to consider how.. odd they sound.

I was really interested in Steiner education for my DC's for a while, but there are some really strange posters who always pop up on the Steiner threads saying quite unpleasant things. They really put me off. One of them is apparently a Steiner teacherwhose comments are not what I would expect from a teacher, putting it mildly.
I feel very sorry for anyone who's had a negative experience with Steiner, as they seem to have had a really rough ride.