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Education

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Steiner education

441 replies

alloveragain · 19/08/2009 01:17

Can anyone suggest an appropriate forum in which I could talk to someone about Steiner education? We have our concerns about it, but our children are still at a Steiner school.
Thanks

OP posts:
thecaty · 07/12/2009 02:10

restless I wonder who gave me this mission then. I am also not sure what you mean by you people. I do like to speak my own mind especially when its lego Star Wars figures. Although the ships are tempting.
It does seem as if a few of the posters are barking up the wrong tree, when talking about me... or my posts.
The point restless, is that some of the posters have been saying the same thing on dozens of threads repeating and repeating its almost cult-like with studmeier as the goal keeper, scoring all the vital goals.
Courage and empathy...not sure.
I am open to be convinced....

restlessnative · 07/12/2009 10:17

thecaty you certainly speak your own mind, I don't doubt it. If anyone had asked you to comment on mumsnet in order to counter concerned mothers posting here, they would by now be weeping into their knitting.

It's spelt 'Staudenmaier'. And he's a historian, not a footballer although if he were, which since he's American is unlikely, he wouldn't be scoring vital goals as goal-keeper unless they were own-goals (except it's you who are so brilliant at those)

mumsnetters who are confused may like to know that Peter Staudenmaier has been researching the history of the anthroposophical movement for his dissertation at Cornell University NY. Anyone who disputes his findings can conduct their own research and present an alternative view, which would be more convincing than trying to distract attention from his analysis by claiming that he's 'lying', 'twisting' or 'distorting'. The reputation of his supervisors at Cornell rests of course on the quality of their graduate students' work, so they're not going to allow through any old rubbish. People might even read it.

mumsnetters might by now wonder what on earth this has to do with finding somewhere to go to discuss Steiner Waldorf ed. Perhaps thecaty you could tell us?

thecaty · 07/12/2009 16:35

"restless* I was resopnding to your previous post really. If you think studmeier does score own goals then that is not what I had in mind. Keepers do score goals and there are plenty of American footballers playing in England in the Premiership. Three of them are actually goalkeepers. But you are right they do not score many.
Again you are refering to 'you', who do you mean.
I have done plenty of post on this thread explaining and putting forward how i experience this wonderful but not faultless education. So.....

mathanxiety · 07/12/2009 17:01

"The bullying was denied, so how could it be addressed?
The behavioural problems? "Nothing we can do"."

Now I am getting a bit more insight into why a rather domineering child who switched from steiner to montessori went back to steiner after a few weeks. I have a suspicion that she was faced with rules and behaviour expectations at the montessori school that weren't present at her steiner school. Her grandmother, who is a children's behavioural therapist, had serious concerns about the steiner approach, which she shared with me, and urged the parents to impose discipline at home, because this particular child was simply unable to get along in a group -- outside of her steiner school, where, I believe, no effort was made to modify her anti-social personality traits. The bullying/ behavioural comment confirms my observations of the steiner children and their parents in action at gatherings at the house next door. My youngest DD wouldn't go to any of our old neighbours' parties without her older sister coming along for protection. She got along fine with the child on her own, but in a group, nobody was safe.

gnomesrus · 07/12/2009 18:28

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mathanxiety · 07/12/2009 18:38

Have a question about the wet on wet painting -- what is this about? One of the DDs went to a painting class at about age 3 run by a steiner teacher but not as part of a steiner school. It was advertised as 'watercolour painting'. DD went to 16 sessions in all.

The teacher made it clear to me there was something missing from DD's paintings -- she tended to end up with swirly creations with only two or three colours that were close together on the colour wheel, like peach and pink and orange, for instance. No discernable shapes, very dreamy. DD enjoyed the class and loved her paintings, which are all displayed here at home still.

Anyone have any idea what the teacher was trying to tell me or why DD's lovely paintings fell short, or what they fell short of?

Barking · 07/12/2009 18:49

This reply has been deleted

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thecaty · 07/12/2009 18:57

Discipline at our school is too strict for some parents and in the many Steiner schools I have visited over ten years some for a whole week did not fit into any of what you are saying. mathanxiety. It is certainly a subject which causes anxiety especially among parents. As is under standable, I have thought a few times one of my own dc's hadbeen at the receiving end of bullying. After some further investigation it turned out to be dissagreements. My ds came home once saying he was bullied, I investigated and it turned out that he did not like another child.
Our school has a very strong anti bullying policy document which is implemented as far as i and all other parents can see.
I have to say when you talk about observing steiner children You must have worn tinted glasses, and I can detect a hint of suspension of disbelieve really... they are not Saints but I have seen plenty of non Steiner children being nasty to each other.
Scare stories... and I think it is not funny at all.

mathanxiety · 07/12/2009 19:18

Thank you very much. Will do.
.....
AHA -- DD produced absolutely no shapes, just swirls. The paintings look like flying through coloured clouds.

Thanks again.

alloveragain · 07/12/2009 22:52

Thecaty, I think we are talking about degrees here. Of course non Steiner children are nasty to each other sometimes. But I, as a parent of children who have attended both Steiner and Mainstream schools, I have never witnessed the amount of schoolyard fighting, ostracisation, bullying, call it what you like, than was experienced by our children at a Steiner school. Surely 6 children from one class leaving in the one year might be a bit telling?
Or do you call that a "Scare story"?

OP posts:
northernrefugee39 · 08/12/2009 10:57

alloveragain- I agree, and would add that in my experience it's how the bullying is dealt with by the adults in charge; mainstream schools aren't always perfect, but from what I gather, and from what many parents experience, Steiner schools tend to turn a blind eye; apparently anthroposophical belief holds that things such as bullying issues are to do with past lives and karma; the implication being that the children attract it, and it is something they need to work through. Just as, according to Steiner, the Steiner teacher and the class are "destined" to be together, karmically. Is this so thecaty?

As a Steiner teacher, thecaty, can you enlighten us about the karma aspect of what happens in Steiner schools? You are a Steiner class teacher aren't you?

It is distinctly odd and suspicious quite frankly, that you won't answer questions about being a Steiner teacher. It is just how it was at the schools, for us at any rate, and judging by what others are saying, for them too.
Don't you see, that by not discussing these things as a teacher, it seems odd as if you're trying to hide something?
But then, the schools are odd. An odd "experiment" of a dead man, who had odd ideas and beliefs, imo.

gnomesrus · 08/12/2009 11:21

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gnomesrus · 08/12/2009 11:26

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Barking · 08/12/2009 11:33

Denial and cover ups on an international scale?

http://www.youtube.com/amazonfilmschannel

Barking · 08/12/2009 11:48

Note the teachers use of passive/aggressive language typical in a Steiner school: "you feel a great sense of responsibility about an issue that's important to you" while his eyes are saying something very different...

Landmark forum and NVC seminars (non-violent communication) featured heavily in both schools I was involved with.

I see (but don't give a shit)
I feel (you made yourself feel like that)
I need (why can't you be more like me)
I request (turning it around so I get my needs met)

gnomesrus · 08/12/2009 11:51

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gnomesrus · 08/12/2009 11:55

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Barking · 08/12/2009 11:59

Hi Gnomes
I've been in contact with them, sadly all of this couldn't happen to nicer people, they really shouldn't be having to go through this.

Interesting how this loophole exists in so many Steiner Waldorf schools worldwide, I hope it's not deliberate on their part.

restlessnative · 08/12/2009 12:53

I've seen the NZ site too: brave & enterprising people.

An aside here, sorry -

Hilarious as I find your footballing analogies thecaty, I'm sure that statistically the chances of a goalkeeper of any nationality scoring a goal whilst in situ (unless it is an own goal when it's something quite different & usually unwelcome at least to his own team) are not high, at premiership level or on a full-sized pitch, unless he's Superman. I'm sure Peter Staudenmaier will be delighted with his new powers, enabling him to boldly go where other historians of obscure 20th century esoteric movements have not yet been. And at speed. Marvelous.

There's an interesting article in the Guardian today:

'But the process of judging success is still bedevilled by the lack of clarity among so many politicians and many commentators about what our education system is for. Is it simply to raise attainment for the largest number? Or to ensure young people can get jobs and deliver the economy workers with the appropriate skills? Is it to give every parent choice? Must it then spawn a myriad of different types of "niche" school to meet the demands of ever more particular groups of consumers? This week Steiner, next week the Scientologists?'

Classic

It's poverty that's still the worst problem for children, not an inability in schools to meet generally amorphous (& in the case of Steiner precise & alarming) so-called spiritual needs.

Barking great take on NVC!

TubOfLardWithInferiorRange · 08/12/2009 17:51

www.cnvc.org/node/369

  1. Differentiating observation from evaluation, being able to carefully observe what is happening free of evaluation, and to specify behaviors and conditions that are affecting us;
mathanxiety · 08/12/2009 18:05

Handy tool for anyone who was extremely defensive but too passive aggressive to actually spit it out. The people on the NZ videos (school rep and teacher's husband) seemed very on edge, roiling inside, behind their eyes.

TubOfLardWithInferiorRange · 08/12/2009 18:07

So I think it would be more accurate to say that NVC espouses the skill of seeing clearly whether one gives a shit or not.

Barking · 08/12/2009 18:16

TubofLard/Isenhart7, I sincerely hope your sudden presence on here doesn't precipitate another attack on MN's servers.

TubOfLardWithInferiorRange · 08/12/2009 18:21

So much for accurate observations sans evaluations...

Toffeepopple · 08/12/2009 20:24

What are Steiner schools like in Italy? Anyone know?

Are there the same issues as presented here?