private or state: how did you decide?

[marialuisa]

We're in the fortunate position of being able to pay for DD to go private, but we're really unsure whether we should.
Our local primary is dire but there is a strong possibility that DD would get into the neighbouring parish school (we're R.C.) At the moment this school has class sizes of 22, nice "feel", good academically etc. However a new housing estate on the way which will push up class numbers and reduce the chance of DD getting a place.

We have looked around and found that if we want DD to go private we should put her name down now for nursery class in January. Thing is I've not thought that any of the schools were particularly fantastic, indeed been quite horrified in some...

So, do we risk it and stick with the state system or put in the private nursery and perhaps move her if the state school is still ok when it's time for her to go there? An added pressure is that we live in a county with the 11+ and people tend to pay to make sure kids get into the grammars as the alternatives are not great!

So, sorry this is so long, but would like to know how other people decided....

Agree totally Jim Jams. If I had a good state school nearby would I pay - I don't think so !
I would be interested to know what people thought about if their child was very ill and needed an op that could be got privately much quicker which would make a different to the condition, would they not do everything they could to get that money ? I know education is slightly different and not life threatening (or it shouldn't be !) but it's the same principal and like Jim Jams said how much to principals count ?
One thing that does interest me, when I see people driving very flash cars into the local comprehensive, nobody judges them, why should they judge people that choose a private school instead of a flash car and an expensive holiday ?

Hear Hear SoupDragon. Very eloquently put.

Just out of interest, does everyone who disagrees with private education also disagree with private housing? All of the comments that can be made about the problems that can exist is state sector schools, (most of which I agree exsist) can also be made about state funded housing. There is insufficient money put into it, the buildings are often dreadfuly substandard, and this has awful effects on the development and wellbeing of adults and children in this country. Children are being disadvantaged by growing up in sub standard accomodation.

Now the question is this, should we all sell our houses give the money to the government and demand that they build accomodation that is fit for the needs of the whole society? And getting the 'middle classes to put pressure on local government. Now, I would agree that in a perfect world, this would be the case, but does anyone think that it a. would work, or b. is going to happen any day soon?

My dad was a dyed in the wool socialist, union man and labour councellor, and even he bought a house for his family to live in, because he thought that was the best thing to do. So how is this different to private education?

Jimjams I absolutely cannot believe that any parent wouldn't do what they could to buy in a service that their child so obviously needs as in your case. As you say, this could apply to education as much as healthcare given the dire choices some parents face as regards local schools. I really would be curious to know how many of the anti-private lot are currently sending their children to chronically understaffed, underresourced, dismally failing and downright dangerous state schools.

I agree with you Rhubarb about many private school kids at Uni. Having come from a Northern state comp and going to a uni with a very high number of private school students I was made to feel uncomfortable a lot of the time - I can understand why students that I teach don't want to apply to Oxbridge although I really try and persuade them (again it's the only way things are going to change). I just think it's really sad that more and more we seem to be encouraging a two teir society and yes based to a large extent on money.

Everyone has their own individual difficult choices to make but the bigger picture is out their for education (and health) as a whole so I stick to my views opposing private education.

and I promised myself I'd shut up

New Thread on Private Health Care if anyone's interested!

Hmb, just a quick one re: getting the middle classes to put pressure on local government, it did happen with the Poll tax! And poll tax was a boring local government finance issue which was handled so badly that mass civil disobedience from all classes ensued! (I know, it still didn't really change much other than a change of name though) Will come back to this later, I HAVE to go out, have been trying for about an hour now!

I keep saying that to myself, Batters, but it's not worked!

Sorry, but the counter argument appears to be that even if we abolished private education the system would not be perfect is a good reason not to do anything at all. Oh dear, with that attitude we wouldn't bother trying to alleviate famine, wipe out disease etc...

Then we are accused of hypocrisy because we might possibly consider private education or healthcare in exceptional circumstances or even moving so that we can get our kids into half decent state schools. We are after all just parents trying to do the best by our families and give them some principles and experience of the world.

Its a lot easier to shoot someones principles down than actually to make a stand !!

By arguing that it is ok to buy special treatment and privilege - you must therefore extend that argument to all circumstances in which it is possible to buy privilege. Trying to think of some examples - is it ok to buy a passport by giving money to the ruling political party, a child from a third world country. I'll think of some more !

PS: Privately educated bigots/racists just tend to be more eloquent and persuasive than the BNP and national front ( very working class movements ).

Re Oxbridge and state school kids feeling 'out of place'. I was a state school girl from a working class background, and I went to Oxford. There were snobs there, but there are snobs and idiots in most parts of society. Oxford has lots and lots of state students, and most of us settled down just fine. Incidentaly I met Dh there, the son of a single parent mother.

Err, so wouldn't that mean you shouldn't be able to use your money so your children can grow up in a rural idyll with clean air rather than an inner city council estate where violence is endemic? Doesn't that mean you shouldn't be able to use money to feed your children a diet of high quality organic meat thus avoidin BSE? etc etc.

Kaz33, if we abolished private education the system would be no better. You'd still have good schools and bad schools with housing near the good schools costing more than that near the poor schools. Therefore the rich get better education than the poor once again.

No, must resist posting further...

And all of life is unfair, and some people have more advantages than others. What about good clothing, holidays, the chance to play in a nice safe playground, private nurseries, where do you stop? I pay the same amount for my dds pivate school as people do for day nurseries. Does that mean that day nurseries should be abolished because they can't be afforded by some working mothers (or mothers who would work if they could afford good childcare)? Where do you draw the line? I would think that most of us draw the line just above what we can afford ourselves. But I could be being cynical I suppose!

Since the NF and BNP are both working class movements that kind of ruins the argument about state schooling creating a wonderful idealistic acceptance of all races, creeds and abilities doesn't it? The sad fact is that you get people like this from every walk of life from my 95 year old grandmother who doesn't understand that some of the things she says are inappropriate now, to the yobbo firebombing the asian corner shop. to the privately educated snob. You also get the opposite too though. You can't generalise.

Must go and fetch my DSs from their private daycare...

HMB: so all of life is unfair therefore why bother changing a thing? If the founders of state education had thought that you (and I) would never have gone to university at all.

They'll turn into narrow minded snobs if you're not careful, FarmerGiles!

And yes I have a nanny... so please feel free to aim !!

In essence just because life is not perfect and totally equal is not a reason not to endeavour to remove discrimination.

Abolishing private education would not make the state system perfect but it would make it better and it would be a good thing for society as a whole. We want your kids !!

Bayleaf - I know what you mean. My last school was pretty much top og the league tables for derbyshire. I moved purely because of travel time - over an hour on M1 each way! Sometimes wished I had stayed there but then I doubt I'd have ever gottion pregnant there - too tiring with the travel and later finishing times! This school is much more of a challenge and not an enjoyable. I am used to getting good exam grades - mostly well over a grade C, including my SEN pupils. One girl who could hardly read or write due to severe learning disabilities got a C there becuase of the support, etc. At this school my highest coursework mark this Easter has been a C and only just. So demoralising.

My Goodness - Iwas trying to be tactful, but this has really kicked off!

In my experience kids that go to a Private school 'feel' superior to kids that go to a State school. I had the option to go to either but I (it was MY choice not my parents) chose to go to the state school coz a lot of my friends were.

Another thing..... I noticed that a lot of bullying goes on too.... I mean kids from our state schools bullying and taunted kids from the Private schools. They usually stand out a mile here coz they are made to wear kilts!! How cruel??

I am a bit confused about the comparison between day nursery and Private schools!!??

My ds goes to a private nursery coz I work.... it's nothing to do with education and everything to do with child care! It just seems an odd comparison.

The argument here seems to be people thinking there is a better level of education at a private school. There isn't on the whole. Perhaps in certain specific areas there is.

Interesting comment about private day nurseries, our local ones cost £1000 a month, that is more than my daughters school fees. If she was an infant now, I wouldn't be able to afford daycare, but wouldn't think that it was wrong that some people could and some can't afford it. Nor would I feel that my daughter was disadvantaged by not being able to go!
No one questions paying daycare fees or considers it elistist or wrong.