Why don't most parents get involved in their children's schools?

[zebraX]

Recent travel survey for my son's school -- 30% reply rate by parents.

"Help us identify your child's talents?" survey at same school, 25% response rate (so far).

Latest preschool committee meeting -- 4 commmittee members, plus committee officers turned up (80 children attend the preschool). Which is pretty good compared to

8 people at Friends of the School meeting last night (~300 children at the school), planning FunFair events. They have at least 20 events on, all of them designed to require low staffing levels, due to lack of parental support.

WHY DON'T MORE PARENTS GET INVOLVED, at least reply to surveys designed to help their school and their child's education, help out with fund-raising events???? I just don't understand. I know some people have legit excuses, but do 75-99% of the parents have good reasons for not helping out???

I was a school governor before I had children and will join the parents association when I am allowed to (nursery parents not eligible) becasue there are a few issues I want to address.

However I would resent all the requests for money that shcools seem to send out. I am also branch secretary of a charity and everyone knows there are certain things I don't do, cakes being one of them and anything involving costumes/sewing.

I am actually one of the parents who wouldn't send in the survey, I'd fill it in, but then it would sit arounf at homne for weeks, eventually getting lost. Nursery gace me a form to fill in 2 months ago about my daughter's asthma and I havn't even managed ti get that back to them yet.

For some parents it is genuinely not their thing and they havn't got time, I know that my charity work cuts into the time I spend with ds and my children and I really ought to stop doing some of it. And I do it for selfish reasons too, the social side and the achievement of organising an event.

I was a school governor before I had children and will join the parents association when I am allowed to (nursery parents not eligible) becasue there are a few issues I want to address.

However I would resent all the requests for money that shcools seem to send out. I am also branch secretary of a charity and everyone knows there are certain things I don't do, cakes being one of them and anything involving costumes/sewing.

I am actually one of the parents who wouldn't send in the survey, I'd fill it in, but then it would sit arounf at homne for weeks, eventually getting lost. Nursery gace me a form to fill in 2 months ago about my daughter's asthma and I havn't even managed ti get that back to them yet.

For some parents it is genuinely not their thing and they havn't got time, I know that my charity work cuts into the time I spend with ds and my children and I really ought to stop doing some of it. And I do it for selfish reasons too, the social side and the achievement of organising an event.

What happened there, I swear I only pressed post message once

Custardo - I thought you made an excellent point about the "donation" wording. I wonder what percentage of parents do not donate to these extra trips? Just today I have had letters asking for a total of £20 for one chld as a donation. Next year I will add up how much all the extras actually cost as I seem to be paying out on a regular basis.

Agree with lots of these posts, esp zebrax and frog. we always fill in things we are asked to by the school, and attend 'fun' (often far from it) days etc if just for half an hour & buy a raffle ticket to buy a bottle of shampoo or whatever.. BUT no, don't have time to bake cakes/ do surveys/ run stalls because we both work full time, and for heavens sake by the time you've got kids home, fed, cleared up, played with them, bath, bed etc, then done all the domestic chores, its 10pm before you have any time to switch off. i'm not spending that time baking cakes, don't care what anyone says. That does not mean i 'don't care' and i resent the suggestion that it does. would we be working all the hours we do if we didn't want the best for our children in the first place, to live in a nice place & send them to the best school we can?????

Or, Flashingnose (and others) here's an idea: what if all schools had enough money to not need bloody PTAs? What if all our children were educated in schools with decent resources, playgrounds and teachers and baking bloody cakes just wasn't necessary? Now that's what I want.

Haven't read all these posts but I must admit the title of the thread has pissed me off a bit. I have just read Custardo's post and I take my hat off to her, esepcially her last paragraph.

Many if not most parents have to do a full-time out-of-home job as well as looking after their children. I work part time but even so the number of different tasks which require my attention would make it impossible to 'get involved' with the school, however much I would like to. I'm not bragging or being the big I-am, I'm just a normal, average parent of two kids. Most evenings I am working, completing what I haven't had time to do in the working day. If not I'm ironing, cleaning, or doing some other domestic chore. One or two nights a week I flop down in front of the box. Perhaps one night a fortnight DH and I have a night out.

I often stand and listen in the school playground in the morning to other parents' conversations and believe me it's only the SAHMs who have the time to talk about the minutiae (sp?) of school life. That is not a criticism, just a fact. Most WOHMs and Ds have either already dropped their child off at the before school club or are frantic because they are running late. When they get home from work they have to cram in all the time with their kids that they can before bedtime, and then probably sit down to some more work or flop in front of the TV.

'Doing more for the school' is a very laudable thing but honestly the vast majority of parents just don't have the time (regardless of what Cod thinks). I am always there for my kids. I will always go to parents evenings. I will pay extra for school trips (according to a letter DS1 brought home last night about a school day out next month "We can't by law charge for this trip but unless you make a voluntary dontation of £11 we won't be able to go"). I will always support him with his homework and try and work with the teachers to make sure he makes the most of his school years. But I cannot and will not sacrifice more of my precious time to bake cakes and join the PTA! (Not until I win the lottery anyway).

Zebra - re your original post regarding surveys and meetings, it could be that parents just didn't have a clue what was going on. Our school had a KS1 literacy workshop for parents one evening and only 4 turned up. But I and many other parents simply weren't able to tell from the ambiguously worded letter, which arrived just the day before the event, whether we were actually supposed to be there or whether it was just for those parents with children in the SATS year. Without the time or inclination to enquire further as a result of the school's poor communication, most parents simply ignored it.

I WOTH 4 days a week and have one day when I work at home. I do get involved with the school - do reading with the children in my DSs class on my day WAH, accompany the children on class outings, attend fairs, galas, parents evenings etc. SO I do everything I can to be there for my DCs and to spend time getting to know their teachers and as much as I can about their school life.

What I will not do is get involved with anything that interferes with my 1.5hours a day when I get to spend time with my DCs. Its not a question for me of not being able to spare the time overall - if the meetings were at 9pm I'd go along - but I am not going to attend a meeting at 7pm. No way. Totally non-negotiable.

I also take issue with the WOTH mums being the ones that don't get involved with teh school - not the case at all at my DCs school. The SAHMs will happily go to all the PAT meetings and run book stalls and jumble sales - but try getting them to do anything that involves interacting with the children and they run faster than the speed of light! They never help out in the classrooms and they never volunteer to help out on school trips or open days.

I asked some this morning whether they would be helping out on a trip next month which I had volunteered for and the answer from all of them (all SAHMs) was 'God no! I see enough of them after school its the last thing I would want to do!' As for helping with reading hte response seems to be 'Oh I'd love to but I've never got time' These are from Mums whose children are all at school - only 1 mum has a younger child who she cares for during the day.

I just want to put the other side of the story - its not clear cut - we all do what we can do and what we want to do. And at the end of the day its voluntary - so people can choose to do it or not! What I won't put up with is anyone telling me what I should or shouldn't be doing! Or that by not doing what they think I should be doing I am somehow letting the side down!

Way to go, www!

I just hope a few of you aren't recognised by other mums at school. Personally I would rather give money than help but I know from experience that voluntary fund money just doesn't come in. Some people don't want to pay and others simply can't afford to. Some of the latter group give their time to the PTFA - they may not know how to run a meeting but they try. £5000 a year seems a lot to me, especially in a less than affluent area. I know there are cliques out there but what really offends me are the critical (under anonymity) masquerading as do-gooders.

in my case its because the "friends" think everyone else has psychic powers and can divine where and when meetings are. they also fail to realise that if you turn up at the "welcome " meeting to find they've already appointed their friends as class reps you might feel a bit bemused and unwanted. sure that's not the case for you but afraid that's my experience

i should add that i do actually help btw have helped at all events but feel that those in charge dont know how to make people feel welcome

I have no problem with people who spend their valuable non-employed time with their kids. That's why we had them. I know there are cliquey PTAs out there. My gripe is simply with those who knock others who make an effort. If people choose to fundraise for the school, a few thousand a year is no small amount. To belittle this work while frequently posting on a do-gooder basis really irritates. Hardly Christian behaviour to be so critical of others, surely? By the way I no longer do PTA (baby to consider) but don't slag off those who try their best.

I'd love to be more involved but unfortunately I rarely leave work before 7.00 (not through choice, I might add). I do complete surveys and help at weekend events if I can.

Last September when ds started reception, I wasn't working, went enthusiastically along to the meeting of reception parents telling us about the PTA, if anyone wanted to join, or help at events/help with reading in the classroom, please sign on the dotted line, name and address, phone number etc.

Now i have not been contacted ONCE in 8 months to help out with ANYTHING. Since Jan I have been working during school hours so it's now not possible, but I put my hand up at the time, so why bother???

Top post Custardo.

Cod - your guilt-tripping is exactly the kind of thing people fear about PTA committees!

I'm certainly not prepared to enter some kind of moral league table with someone telling me that needing two incomes to house us and wanting to spend the rest of my time at home with Ds is not good enough for the PTA. When Ds goes to school, i will do what I can, it won't be much, but it will have to be good enough.

Comedy has to be very recognisable to work - hence the PTA scenes in Desparate Housewives.

I fill in any questionnaires that are sent home. The most recent one was for changing the school finishing hours from 3.20pm back to 3pm. We got a school letter home yesterday and among other things it mentioned that they had received 88% of the questionnaires back. And the school hours are not going to change, which is what I voted for so I'm happy.

As for the PTA etc I don't have the time to go to these. They are held in the evenings and I work during the day and Dh works in the evenings and I don't have anyone to babysit. We also often get letters home saying that the PTA meeting is tonight which is not enough notice.

There is also another committee meeting of some sort that is held on a Wednesday morning and I work then so again I can't go.

Sometimes they hold fetes on a Saturday for Easter and Christmas mainly. And they always fall on a Saturday when I'm working so again I can't go to them.

HMB, "bring and buy sales for roads" LOL. Don't tell your local council you've thought of that one. Or don't tell mine, anyway.

this thread seems to have hit a few nerves. I try to get involved with the school because I don't work, my kids are school age. I know I'm lucky to be able to do it. I don't expect parents who are working full time to put in the same effort - the ones who do amaze me. However when the school has fetes then I don't think its a lot to ask for parents to do an hour or two helping on a stall/ setting up/ making things to sell. The children adore fetes (why we have them) and the parents are usually dragged along too - so they may as well help out for a little while.

Ks you are very funny but its also very sad that you can find no common ground with the other parents. Children tend to socialise outside school with the people whose parents are friends with their parents. For your children's sake it is better to try and like the other parents at school. Those parents who don't get involved at all may be seen as thinking themselves as "superior". That doesn't help your children's friendships.

I volunter my husband. Works for us. The leading light at the PTA fancies him and makes it clear she much prefers his company to mine. Dh is flattered but not likely to be hooked, so we're all happy.

I like PTAs (or any group of parents who work together for the school). Despite the politics and cliqueness a PTA gives a school more soul.

Personally I just dip into the activites I choose to - don't make cakes, do attent fetes. Best tip I have: I go late to events. I am there for the last hour only so my sons can't spend shed loads of money. I then stay afterwards to help tidy up, so I have helped the PTA in a small way.

My son's school raised money to put in a zebra crossing outside school (would like to know just how it is that a zebra crossing costs 11K to install, someone on the council is seemingly doing well on the expenses).

I have done committee work for a charitable based organisation but have no wish to do it again now hence my decision not to actively take part now in any PTA meetings. Also they do come across as being not very approachable especially at DS's school.

I'll fill in all the questionnaires, pay up when asked by school (that seems to happen quite a lot!) and attend all the "fayres" held when possible. But joining the PTA - I draw the line there.

Good tactic tigermoth.
Blu you have summed it up for parents WOTH. We don't have the flexibility that parents based in the home during the day do. How can I possibly be back at school to help with a book sale that kicks off at 3pm when I work an hour's commute away and need to save all my leave for selfish fripperies like ds' sports day and covering the school holidays.
We do everything we can to support our school and our PTA and the husband and wife team who run it are lovely people, very friendly and cheery. But some of the other mothers who are most active in it have made it clear that they think both parents WOTH = selfish/greedy/low-achieving family, not putting their children's needs first. It does put you off attending the meetings, frankly.

I'm with Gobbledigook, the second my ds starts school I'll be joining in with EVERYTHING For me, being a major part of it all is one of the points of having kids

Interesting thread - got to add my bit.
At my daughter's school, which is in a middle-class, suburban area (NB not a typical white suburb but very mixed-race), we are lucky to have a fairly active minority of parents who get very involved in the school. Over the years they have raised funds to kit out the school with lots of essentials and a few extras. I get involved a bit, but not as much as some.
But what really irritates me is parents who gripe about the school and things that don't happen (eg kids not getting library books one week, or not doing x, y, or z) when it's made very clear to them that such things can often only happen if parents help out. If you're not prepared to somehow help when you really can, don't complain.
I know not everyone is in a position to help, but many more could be if they were a little more creative with their time. (I sometimes give up a morning's work and then do my work in the evening after the kids go to bed. And I'm not a martyr or boasting, just trying to get the right balance.)
btw, don't know the source of this, but apparently kids whose parents take an active involvement in their schools do better academically in the long run.