waldorf steiner

[heninthemidden]

hi,

anyone had good experience of waldorf steiner education system?

Desiderata. I know of whom you speak.

Thank fuck for that! It's nice to know that someone else shares my alien conspiracy theory

TheRationalist wrote:

The "Goetheanum, near Basel, Switzerland, is often referred to by members as the 'First Class.' It is the center of organized Anthroposophical identity and has spiritual authority over the various national Schools, such as those in Great Britain."

This refers to the national sections of the "School for Spiritual Science" for adults, not Steiner Waldorf schools for youngsters.

In general I would not trust "TheRationalist" = Northernrefugee39" = "MrsNordwall" to give a reliable or balanced picture of things related to Steiner edcuation and anthroposophy.

For a good picture, see the Wikipedia articles on Steiner Waldorf edcuation and anthroposophy and the relation between them. The articles are restricted to using reliable sources.

Tizian- I'm not The Rationalist or Mrs Nordwell. I've never used those names.

This book has unbiased research about anthroposophy and First Class,
The Sun at Midnight

I've heard that the wiki articles have been 'cleansed' which may not come as a great shock to anyone reading this thread.

Tizian - are you a sun amongst small stars?

btw - hello Desiderata, read elsewhere! Yes, they're all here from Area 51

I've heard the Wiki entries are kept cleared of biased critics, same as every Encyclopedia round the world for centuries.
Wilder are you a duckling among geese?

Ha theCaty, are you back from the Italian Renaissance now? Here's a little visit to Wiki where you have to get in quick before the anthros start meddling Got to protect that Steiner Industry!

I am wilder than your average duck, bless you

Geese do have a sense of humour

Glad to hear it. What an interesting avian sub-plot.

But sadly we cannot continue with the sub-plot since more serious matters are at stake. Anyone who dissociates the active promotion of anthroposophy with Steiner education is being - shall we say - disingenuous. Here is a clear statement of intent The anthroposophical society of Great Britain exists to promote anthroposophy: the subject matter of the writings and teachings of Rudolf Steiner, in, amongst other areas, the field of education. In other words: in Steiner schools. Simple. Or: are you boys fibbing to the Charity Commission?

Were it not for the involvement of children in this woo the anthroposophists could all enjoy their imaginary world in peace. But the risks are too high for that indulgence of adult fantasy because children are involved.

It is not a game.

Trying to switch left handed children to using their right hand because left handedness is a sign of karmic weakness.

OMFG, this is another new one to me (being fairly new to discovering the darker side of Steiner).

That is just, sick.

At our school there are plenty of lefthanders,and not a single childs is being forced to switch. How times change!
I would enquire, if it bothers you so much, if the practice is used in the SW school you are sending your children to.
What on earth is OMFG.

Nortern; the mother I have mentioned earlier,
actually mentioned you without being promted, She felt having being educated at a Steiner school for 15 years she could not believe your attidude and and felt not much of what you wrote about a year ago on blogs was either true or bore any relevance to her education. She was eighteen when she finished her school and fully aware of what went on in her school. She became a successfull business woman and now wants her child that was pushed about in state school to have the best education she could wish for her child.
Three month after her child started she could see how her confidence was growing at her new Steiner school.
There are thousands of stories like hers out there. Positiv stories, how else is there more and more schools being established mostly by parent initiative.(and not by the Anthroposophical society)

I said before my own children absolutly love their school. It is their second home, in their own eyes!
How else would my daugther aged 8 say: My old Kindergarten teacher( whom she still sees daily)is my favorite person in the whole world, after you mummy!

OMFG = Oh My Fucking God. Obviously means one is more shocked than when using only OMG.

I know there are thousands of positive stories, I would have claimed to be one this time last year, BUT I would not have been able to read this thread without definately reconsidering my plans which were to continue at Steiner beyond kg.

But my children no longer go there and so enquiring about what they do with left handed children would not be relevent anymore! I think it is naive to immediately suggest that the linked article was wrong and outdated. Why are you so closed to the possibility of truth in this? I was open to Steiner and anthroposophy, I think everyone here has been or is, and yet it is only the people who are still open to the beliefs of anthroposophy and Steiner ed, that refuse to acknowledge many of the things that are linked too, talked about, etc. I am open to believ that many positive things happen in Steiner schools, but I also know negative things happen too, and when they do it is the closed attitude and denial, that make the whole thing come unstuck as a viable alternative to state education.

theCaty - we could all be spinning stories, it's true. Likewise there's no evidence that anything you say is accurate: it's hearsay. At the moment it's malicious gossip aimed at Northern. Not an impressive debating position.

These Initiatives are started by parents yes, often for the very best motives. They may know very little about anthroposophy, it's almost an accident they stumble into Steiner instead of Montessori. The SWSF is always happy though to step in with an instructive anthro uber-teacher and a set of handy cliches for that tender new prospectus. It's exciting, being part of something new: banging in the wooden posts, building the sandcastles... the community is precious... they can ignore those odd things that happen, stuff that doesn't make sense. They are almost dreaming...

Thank goodness there are positive stories, kind teachers, valuable moments. No one wants to take these away from any child or family. But to ignore those other, salutary stories: those warning signs, is no longer possible.

Good points Wilder.

Wiki, as with most promotional literature on Steiner has indeed been 'cleansed', glad to see you took the time to search a little deeper.

Tizian does a great disservice to the intelligence of the people contributing to this thread, did he really think he could play us all for fools? A child knows Wiki is only as reliable as the people who write it, god how bored the people at Wiki must be with the constant meddling, and how touching to think there's anyone who believes all encyclopedias from the last few hundred years were always free of bias, as if the Catholic Church never existed with its playful red-robed Spanish Inquisitors and their fiendish arm-twisting.

thecaty
" she could not believe your attidude ...and and felt not much of what you wrote about a year ago on blogs was either true or bore any relevance to her education"

I can assure you everything I've written that happened to my children at the school they were at is true.

My "attitude" was a symtom of being angry and upset about what had happened to my children, how we had been deceived, and had our kids put through this anthroposophical experiment.

Perhaps I should have sung it in a dusty gnome song

And I don't give a toss what the brain addled loop, who has been at Steiner school for 15 yrs and doesn't believe me, or you, think.
If you believe the supernatural occult tripe that Steiner wrote, you could believe anything was "good".
But of course I wouldn't trust the people at the school to be entirely truthful...

And, by the way- at this particular school, they "encouraged" my daughter to use her right hand, because it "was best", and I found ut later that she "had" to knit right handed too.
Questions about it were treated in a very shifty manner.

A friend of mine who I saw on Friday, who has three children at the school, (but is separated from his partner), his child was also "forced" to change hands, until he intervened and put a stop to it. As far as I know, if they can get away with it, they try, and it's still happeneing now.

Wilderduck- that link to the Anthroposohical Society of Great Britain and their statement of intent is scary....
"to promote" (the application of anthroposophy) "in the field of education...."

I see they are a group of the general anthroposophical society in Dornach, Switzerland- the headquarters.

Manatee, great post. There were so many things, and people, at the school ours went to which were good. I've listed them on n umerous occasions, the music, singing, craft, gardening. Many of the people have good intentions.
It's the anthroposphy, the constant reference to Steiner's indications, the madness of his beliefs treated as truths, and used on our children which is so wrong.

Here is an anthroposophist quoted from this pieceWhy Anthroposophy is Cult-like

"The real potential danger arising from the dissemination of anthroposophy has nothing to do with authority or reverence for "der Doktor." It has to do with the potential abuse of this widely distributed occult knowledge. We have already seen severe abuse of occult knowledge, gathered from a variety of sources, this century. The Nazi explosion that practically destroyed Germany is one thing; Scientology is another. If a person clings unquestioningly to Steiner, he kind of stagnates in a harmless way, because Steiner's ethos was that of self-sacrificing love, and the Christian practice of answering hate and hostility with love and compassion. But we will get more and more people who simply sift from Anthroposophy what they can use for their own ends and their own advancement while they look for clever shortcuts, and who use occult knowledge to control other people who do not have this knowledge. So if there is anything frightening about anthroposophy, it is this.

Cheers,

Tarjei"

Hi

I haven't got a whole lot to add to this dbate but just want to add my voice again to those on the Steiner Sucks camp.

A friend of mine from the WSS we attended has just asked me to show her the letter I sent college and trustees during crisis time last year just before I withdrew my dc's.

I thought that a year on my anger would be lessened but actually rereading it made me even more furious. Last year I just wanted everything to be sorted out for my dc's. Now that they are all happy instate schools I can see that the school really was entirely to blame for what happened and my dc's should never have been exposed to the idiocy and incomptence they experienced. I have no idea what goes on at thecaty's WSS but I know that what happened to one of my dc's was outrageous. The whole place was toxic for him. I can't be bothered to rake over the details, just the usual cocktail of bullying, continued bad behaviour, boredom and glassy eyed smiles.

theCaty - Perhaps things are different at your school, but I still meet people from dcs' school who are unable to see what is going on, despite the fact that children continue to leave in droves, despite the continued crises, the teacher's breaking down etc.

When bad things happen to people's dcs they get angry, especially when paid professionals try to blame dc's for their own shortcomings and professional inadequacies. Surely as a mother you can understand that. Of course we are angry and trust me, if it had happened to your dc, you would be too. It's easy to be calm when it's someone elses dc gibbering in the corner....

End of rant.

It is difficult to know where to start replying!
I do not deny for one moment that you had bad experiences. But I also do not believe as I have said before that it is just always 100% the teachers to blame or the school.
I think this pictures is not possible and I hope everyone sees that.
Neither do I feel you can change very much via these posts. If there is an element of reconciliation amongst you then yes you will achieve this in parts, and you let anyone else participate reading these blogs.
Our school is not perfect, we make mistakes, could communicate better at times. We are happy to improve all the time.

But certainly people here imagine the SWFS being this all influencing organisation. This is certainly not true, but there is a lot of practical help they offer: record keeping, evaluation,
financial advice etc.
So if you want to help Steiner Waldorf schools to become better places then can we find a way of doing this? together?

Maria33 - Hello. Can't add anything. Just glad that your dcs are happy now. Please stay around here if you can bear to.

Anyone who wants to complain about their dcs school can contact Ofsted directly. This is your right as a parent and the very reason we have Ofsted.

"to promote" (the application of anthroposophy) "in the field of education..." means

"to promote Waldorf education" not

"to promote anthroposophy at schools" or even at waldorf schools, as you somewhat paranoically seem to think and try to imply is a secret conspiracy by them "anthroposophists".

Scary? Yeah, like promoting biodynamic farming, a typical "anthroposophical conspiracy". Beware! Bd cultivated carrots CAN make you into into an anthroposophists, if you eat more than three a day. Pure secret indoctrination by stealth ... And you never knew how it happened! If people only knew!!