waldorf steiner

[heninthemidden]

hi,

anyone had good experience of waldorf steiner education system?

Did the charisma domentors visit in the night?

Nortern,
There is reality in Steiner Waldorf schools,
There is also things going wrong.
You seem to concentrate on the latter only.
This kind of devalues your over all points.
And I suppose that is what make you what I believe obsessive.
This really applies to many other WD critical posters.

Thecaty, it seems to be that saying that Steiner schools are not perfect is as far as you care to admit about the potential failings of SW. Because you really cannot stamp out parents out there trumpeting the harm of Steiner.

But your and Isenhart's response to so-called imperfection stops there.

Instead, you/isenhart, despite your satisfaction with Steiner education, cannot seem to resist demonising the parents as moany, twisting, know-it-all, panic-ridden, resentful, "setting up false dichotomies" (??). Your response to manatee's concern about possible sexual abuse was scaremongering, "just short of lying in some cases". Even dyslexia is "apparent" (isenhart). Another imaginary thing made up with parents with an axe to grind, of course.

Of course, not perfect but actually, it is all lies and scaremongering from moany parents.

Rather negates any semblance of normality you are isenhart are trying to portray of Steiner. You cannot erase the fact that under the surface, there are some really grim things lurking and being covered up.

Just my observation.

thecaty I don't understand what you mean by "reality"

Call me whatever you like thecaty- you don't know me.
Unless of course you know more than you're purporting to, have receieved information from for instance thebee, who is, I would say, a highly unreliable source, who is obsessed with keeping any negative stories about Steiner Waldorf from the net, and apparently tracking those who tell them.

We're all aware that things go wrong in Steiner schools; it's how they're delt with that interests me.

Steiner Waldorf is an education which isn't open about the belief system it is hinged upon;
a belief system with some highly suspect "truths";
a belief system whose objectives are often stated as "to spread the knowledge of Rudolf Steiner" or " to promote the study of anthroposophy".

People have a right to know this when they place their children in the schools.

And the public have a right to know when these schools are being state funded.

Simple.

bueshoes - X'ed posts.
Thanks- a great post from someone acting as an observer.

I can't make put what thecaty meant by "just short of lying".
If you make a statement like that, it should be substantiated.
The implication is a smear in itself.
It is a tactic used by anthros on critics.

blueshoes-in my experience there is nothing demonic about being or appearing to be dyslexic or having a natural tendency toward setting up false dichotomies. I haven't had any experience with felt or hemp handcuffs-dare I say YET-so you could be on to something there.

the caty-it sounds to me like you may be yet another proponent of late welding. I'm assuming from what you say about your class that you think it's all fine and dandy for them but you wouldn't say, weld with the Kindy or set the toddlers out on the corner with charcoal sales. For shame!!! If it was good enough for Hans Christian Anderson, I dare say it should be good enough for you.

I certainly do not only concentrate on the negative experiences! My son had a wonderful time in kg, and I cried so much when he left as I truely did not want him to leave (and I could not afford for him to stay). But unfortunately the REALITY is that the cover up of child sexual abuse going unreported and associated failings really overshadows the good times, it is a shame, but when things go so badly wrong it can be difficult to focus on other times. (gorgeous festivals, crafts, toddlers, camping etc...)

I did have an email from the chairperson today to let me know that I have not been forgotten, but they have been away, easter holidays etc have resulted in a delay, so that was nice to keep me informed. I have not given up hope, but there is a lot of work to do, and denial from the school and other Stiner supporters only fuels my anger, and pushes all those good memories a little further away.

Its the "possible" in the sexual case that is disturbing there is possible in a lot of things and a lot of what you are saying is either totally open to interpretation or its vage or its potentially or my child told me.
Very little on substance a lot of speculation.
And I think its called prejudice. You are prejudging a case aren't you.
And you use it for scaremongering purposes in your arguments.
If a court case has been settled for £8000 then you say that the school payed this to shut the parents up. There are hundreds of cases in English courts that settle every day! are they also all being asked to shut up?

Isen, my class did not do welding it was blacksmithing they did.
And I do not get your point. What is it?

Manatee,
I sent my last post before I read your last, so,it looks like an answer to your post it isn't. So sorry for the bad timing!
I really hope sincerely that it is properly investigated and that you get what you hoped for.
good luck.

OMFG!!!!!! thecaty like really...WTF!!!! PARENTS have seen and heard the behaviour. . Why are you suggesting it is speculation???Social services see the evidence and said that the school's malicious referal was based on speculation, the facts are there for all to see (NOT that I shall divulge them here fo you to see while I am still dealing with this).

And no I am not doing this for money, I would be grateful to have my deposit (which is my money anyway!) returned out of goodwill, but what I am most interested in seeing is the school taking action to make sure policies are in place to prevent this ever happening again. But it is that situation whereby their denial (and your moronic rambling) fuels my desire not only for justice but for REVENGE!!! Like some form of compensation, but all I wnat is things sorted, but the more they run, hide, cover up, the more I think that is not good enough.

Oh and thecary there is no possible, a child does not say and do the things that were said and done unless they ARE being abused, what is worse, is the KG teacher that was told SHOULD have known this as she had done cp courses, but still she chose not to act because she felt embarrassed repeating what had happend!!!

OK thecaty cross posts, again, don't worry!

Northern you wrote,
"We're all aware that things go wrong in Steiner schools; it's how they're delt with that interests me."
Well there we have some thing in common!!!
At our school we have do deal with things going wrong and I am sure that at times we upset people as you can never make it right for every body. As a school you make decissions say involving 4 families, you bet one family is not going to like it. they even start hating the teachers and as much as you try you are not going to make them understand. That's just a fact of live. As teachers we have to work with this and try to understand why this family is feeling the way they are and talk to them if they are open to this.
Sorry its late and I am not making a lot of sense.

theCaty - It's alarming to hear this way of talking about school policy. In most (let's say non-Steiner) schools a decision involves children rather than families and something extreme must be happening for parents to start hating teachers. I wonder if Steiner ed's problematic long-term class teacher system and the eccentric administration of many schools causes parents to feel there's a lack of accountability. And if Mimsum's account of her son's experience in a Steiner kindergarten indicates the suffering caused when teachers are guided by anthroposophical ideas.

If you mean that families are involved due to something as extreme as Manatee's experience and it's the teachers who deal with it, something has gone very badly wrong. A school might then seem a very unsafe place.

Your class's sailing adventures sound great fun and of course it's difficult to take that elephant (of anthroposophy) onto a boat with you. We could all play Swallows and Amazons and leave the elephant on the shore. No one needs it.

Wilderduck.
I think we have an interpretation here from you that I called in earlier posts 'twisting'
But of course you can read anything inbetween lines.
I meant that what ever decission you take involving several people you are very likely to make it right for some and not so for others.
As teachers we are faced with a multytude of opinions, at times, between parents and of course its in relation to their children!
So it is not always easy to do the right thing for every body.
Our policies are sound and even OFSTEAD were impressed, conterary to your conclusion!
I am not realating above to anything that has happened. Why so many assumptions.
If you have any points to make about anthroposphy then perhaps you want to talk to the Anthroposophical society.

That word 'twisting' seems to crop up a lot on threads like this. Often as 'twisted lies' or in phrases like the verbose: 'outstandingly twisted anti-Steiner agitprop'. I don't read it many other places so I notice it and can't help remembering where I've heard phrases like 'twisted lies' used before, historically. It isn't a pleasant association to be forced to make.
On threads like this the word seems to be used often by one particular individual.

Still the elephant, in the kindergarten, in the classroom: immovable, omnipresent, you just can't get away from the fellow

thecaty-sorry you did say blacksmithing but we don't have blacksmithing here. About the closest we get is a trip to the ferrier in the third grade so that's a difference perhaps between the English and American Schools. We do plasma cutting in 8th grade and welding in 9th. The children begin fund-raising for class trips in 7th grade. My point was that I think it's a shame that the children aren't free to express themselves through metal crafts and develop their fundraising skills sooner as they are certainly capable of doing so.

Felix, your tea's ready.

Aha! I can think of a few ex-Steiner teenagers who would love to express themselves through metal crafts making gifts for their beloved former teachers. But the police have asked them not to.

Indeed, the fabulous elephant has become a motif.

My own dc has just offered me this mature appraisal of the work of Rudolf Steiner. It all now falls into place. I didn't know Oscar Wilde hung out with the theosophists but you learn something new every day

Isenhart, we start fundraising stalls in class 3 your grade 3. Do you have forgeries in the states?
Rateionalist, we do have the great number 0! of what you describe "first class" or is it "fist class" I am sure your picture is roughly rigth. Just what has it got to do with my children in my class 0!
Could you now give me a picture of the WC's, which I take looks very similar who is in your fist class?

thecaty-we have founderies but I think in the main on the East Coast. Schools there could have metal casting-I don't know.

thecaty mentioned problems being dealt with by teachers, that is exactly the problem in the case that resulted in us leaving, social services were not informed when they should have been, and the teacher(s) dealt with it all most inappropriately.
In state schools there are often complaints, but there are so many procedures in place to ensure they are dealt with properly, furthermore, with a hierachal system, someone can be held accountable (and therefore enforce policy to ensure they are not held accountable for any negative issues), unlike in Steiner ed, where it is all too easy to keep passing the blame.

Therationalist I have heard of the 'First Class' only very briefly, it all sounds very bizarre. I think if teachers are in something like that with specific regard to the education of children then it is the parents right to know what they are getting up to. State school teachers have details of their professional developments generally talked about in school newsletters

MANATEEequineOHARA, I can't help but think that the particular harrowing situation you describe at your child's school and the delays in responding to your very serious concerns, is in some way linked to these members of the 'First Class' dithering by seeking answers through consulting higher worlds

Thecaty's statement of "Just what has it got to do with my children in my class!" is an interesting point, and the answer is the 'First Class' has everything to do with those children. I can't believe you are that naive. The Steiner industry is far from equal, to call a meeting with the Managing Director translates as communicating with the 'spiritual realm' through clairvoyance to provide guidance. I can't think of anything more dangerous where young children are involved, as this guidance the teachers supposedly receive is through psychic powers. Yes really psychic powers!
A very grand delusion.

Steiner Waldorfians have sinisterly quiet voices, and very big ears.

Just an observation, but I am very observant.