grammar schools. and the point is?

[threadbare]

im fed up hearing recently about such and such has got a place at the local grammar school. our local comp is an excellent school but when people get places at the grammar they start to dis the comp. its pi**ing me off.
(may have spelt grammar wrong so await tirade of verbals)

that's the way it goes isn't it.

the public schools hate the independents, the independents hate the grammar and everyone hates the comp. 'sink' schools is one of the most used phrases on here.

maybe because they are proud of their child getting in???

and maybe they aren;t dissing the local comp, just talking about the differences, and you are feeling defensive and so read more into their comments than are actually there??

Are public schools not the same as independents then?? [v. cheaply educated emoticon]

Just because a school is excellent doesn't make it the best school for every individual child?

Though perhaps this is a very London-centric viewpoint where there are large numbers of very different schools around. I could see that if you were in a town with a single comp and a single grammar school then it would be more fraught.

dont kno what sink means? just annoying when people start to dis. cos if they hadnt got a place they wouldnt be doing it

I think that public schools are members of the HMC, though there may be an even more select list of 25 or so of the oldest who claim to be the true public schools. Not all independent schools are public schools, though all public schools are independent, for now.

yes im sure you would be proud but i think its weird to have to pass a test to get in.do you think that all the kids would be similar. what if a really bright child was just not on form on the day of the test? and do you think its good to have a good mixture of people of different abilities at a school. dont want to open can of worms just out of interest really

Just because a child can pass a test in Maths and English isn't going to make them clones. You'll get the full range of geeky, stylish, sporty, creative children that you would get at most schools. They will however be mainly accessing an academic rather than vocational education. So I guess that you could feel sorry for their more limited opportunities.

In terms of having an off day, I guess different grammar schools have different policies in place for what to do if a candidate is ill for example.

[hides head in shame] I went to a grammar school (albeit 30 years ago!) and of course not everybody was teh same. Many of the girls were much cleverer than me, although I rememeber at age 11 thinking how thick some of the others were (not very pc in those days). For me the advantage was not having to hide the fact that you were reasonably clever for fear of being bullied (not that I was brilliant or anything...) Also you were taught at a level to suit you, which was obviously at a generally higher level than if the classes had been more mixed.

I went to a grammar school, but then in my day we all just sat the test one day at school and those who passed got in, those that didn't went to the comp. There wasn't this culture of intensive cramming and private tutoring to get a place. My sister was one of a gang of girls who were always fooling around at school, and maybe because of that she didn't pass. She went to the comp and then did her A levels at the grammar school 6th form. Maybe because there are less grammar schools these days people make such a fuss about the unfair system.

i went to a grammar school too and it was really crap. i started in year 3 at 13 and hardly got any qualifications. got them later.
i would hope that no child at a comp would have to hide their cleverness

i went to grammar school and not everyone was the same, we also had plenty of sports and music and art etc so we didn't just concentrate on maths and english.
my test at aged 11 was iq rather than what you had learned/crammed.
the advantages were you didn't get bullied for doing your homework, you wanted to keep up so tried hard, you worked at quite a high level so were never bored, it was a nice environment to learn in, good exam results.
the disadvantges were you got bullied by everyone at the comp cos you had a funny uniform, you got called a swat on the bus, it was single sex so you don't learn how to be just friends with boys, long bus journey every day, friends too far away at weekends, even to this day (i'm 31) once people know i went to grammar there are snide comments, you should know this you're supposed to be clever, ooh your posh you went to grammar.

so do only posh people go to grammar schools then?

i'm from the black country, def not posh.

Grammar schools all need to be got rid of. There's hardly any round here now (west midlands)

so why do people assume these things then even now? i still dont actually see the point of them but thank you everyone for the debate

becasue you need to be able to afford a house near the local grammar school these days. lots of places don't have them.

so not posh just rich so they're pretty unfair

at the comp pupils in each subject have different levels of ability, the teacher will prob aim the lesson at the middle and then assistants may support pupils who are struggling but no-one will help the ones who find it easy so they are held back.
grammar school just remove this top set and put them all together to work at their own level.
just my opinion.
if dd can pass when she is 11 and is academically minded i will send her, if she isn't interested in going she will not have to.

xtc, thats not true here, you do not have to be rich at all and don't have to live in an expensive area.

I found that to be the same in my private school. The ones who struggled got all sorts of extra tuition cos the school wanted to get 100% A*-C grades. The ones who were clever didn't really get any extra help cos the school weren't worried about them bringing the results down.

arent the ones who find it easy just bright then ? isnt there a top set on comps?

not in all lessons. you will get put in sets for the core subjects and some others but often there will be mixed ability groups as well.

imo at comps the ability range is massive and the top set gets less attention as there grades won't have a negative affect on the school. imo by going to grammar school the ability range is much smaller in most subjects and therefore you still get attention and help where needed.

ilovetochat - in the vast majority of comprehensives these days students are rigorously set by ability. The top sets are taught to the same high standards as in any grammar school. My top set students are all expected to achieve A* in their GCSEs, I certainly don't 'aim the lesson at the middle'.

Schools are far more accountable now than in the past; teachers know each individual student's target grade and are expected to help them achieve it. I don't think you'd find many schools where bright A/A* students are held back.

yes agree with rolo, my ds is being pushed like mad to get A* at his comp.